Andy Pilgrim

• Let’s talk about a little lad named Andy, back in the UK… were you always interested in cars? What kinds of cars or drivers inspired you to get into racing?
• You came to the states in the 1980s as a computer programmer, becoming a US citizen in 1998; how did you get started in the world of Motorsports? 
• How did you go from grassroots racing to the larger endurance stage? What was that like? Who did you study under?
• Let’s talk more about your racing experience, Team Cadillac and Corvette Racing. Winner of the 12 hrs of Sebring, 2 wins at the Petit LeMans Road Atlanta, 3 wins at the 24 hrs of Rolex, 1 overall, 2 GT class; 5 podiums at the 24 hrs of LeMans. 
• You’ve been involved for many years with the National Corvette Museum Motorsports Park. Talk to us about the track, and how a Test Track differs from a Race Track?
• C7 vs C8 Corvette – your thoughts?
• You also give back to the community at large through your Traffic Safety Education Foundation – what this is all about?
• Where is Andy now?  Your involvement in GT3/GT4 racing, Ferrari & Porsche and in racing in the SRO GT America, International GT and GT Celebration series this year. 

and much, much more!

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder, how did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: The following episode is brought to you by S r o Motorsports America and their partners at a W s CrowdStrike, Fantech Pelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School. Be sure to follow all the racing action by visiting www.sromotorsports.com or take a shortcut to GT America us and be sure to follow them on social at GT America, on Twitter and Instagram at SRO GT America on Facebook.

and catch live coverage of the races on their YouTube channel at GT World.[00:01:00]

The 12 Hours of Sebring, Petit Le Mans, the Rolex 24, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, GT races on five continents, the Pikes Peak Hill Climb, and NASCAR. What do all these have in common? Well, they have a British born racing driver who has competed in all of them, won many, some more than once. Some of you might know him best from his days with Team Cadillac and Corvette Racing.

That’s right. Our guest on Brake Fix tonight is the legendary Andy Pilgrim. So welcome to the show, Andy.

Andy Pilgrim: Thanks, Eric. Wow, what an introduction. Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: So like every good Brake Fix story, we always love to start with an origin. So let’s talk about a little lad named Andy back in the UK. Were you always interested in cars?

Andy Pilgrim: Yes, absolutely. I was always interested in cars. It was quite befuddling to my parents who had absolutely no interest in it whatsoever. [00:02:00] According to my mother, she was ironing and I was in my crib, supposedly. I hadn’t said anything, mommy, daddy, nothing. Listening to the radio, apparently there was a race on the radio, probably Formula 1 or something back in, this would be the 19, late 50s.

Mike Hawthorne was a racer back then. According to my mom, she said suddenly from nowhere I was sort of standing in the curb. I started like jumping up and down. My first words, I said my Hawthorne, my Hawthorne, my hor, my Hawthorne. Over and over and over again. Now I kind of worried my father because he was a little concerned, you know, about this.

You know, she assured him that she didn’t know my callthorne and that apparently was my first words. So it’s pretty much been downhill since then, mate.

Crew Chief Eric: So, were there any cars that inspired you as well outside of the formula One.

Andy Pilgrim: Well, it was a radio, you know, radio, we didn’t, we didn’t actually have a TV, honestly, back then, and the noises, I started making car noises, and it was just fascinating to me, as a child, I just liked the cars, and I was fascinated with cars, I [00:03:00] would follow cars, I would look at cars, I would jump in people’s cars, if they came to visit, I would, like a dog, you know, the dog goes out, it jumps in a car, I was the kid, I ran out, I went, jumped in the car, when they were leaving, And it’s like, you know, let’s go for a ride type of thing.

You know, if someone had a car, we had a car. I don’t know where it really came from. There was no racing or anything in the family. The local racetrack had motorcycle road races. My dad liked motorcycle. He never was interested in cars at all. He did take me to watch motorcycle road races when I was very young.

You know, that’s probably the only connection with racing that I have.

Crew Chief Eric: So is that where you got interested in motorcycles? Because that’s another passion of yours is the two wheeled variety of vehicles.

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, definitely that became an interest just in the sense of listening to the bikes, uh, having friends when I was old enough to think about getting a moped or something very, very inexpensive.

Secondhand transportation, the moped was the way to go 50 cc’s, zero to 25 miles an hour down a cliff in a week. It was [00:04:00] pretty ridiculous. The mopeds were. Very, very, very slow, but it was anything with an engine fascinated certain young lads. I was one of those young lads. And if somebody had a something with an engine, you just stand around and look at it, you know, and see, when’s it going to start?

Can I have a ride? And it was usually at that point, of course, early days mopeds.

Crew Chief Eric: So we’ve talked to other guests on the show that came from the UK and they said turning wrenches wasn’t a passion. It was part of the lifestyle, right? Cause a lot of the cars were, let’s say unreliable and things like that.

So did you find yourself turning wrenches at an early age, maybe working on your family car?

Andy Pilgrim: No, my dad didn’t like cars. He was sort of a chemist. His brain was sort of more a chemical brain. He had no interest in the car aspect. He was engineering based. He would build furniture or he would do some scrap metal sculptures for fun and stuff in his garage, but not the car stuff.

I only got involved in cars once I had a paper round and then I had a bicycle. And then I sold, eventually I sold a bicycle to buy a very cheap moped. [00:05:00] Literally it was 3 to buy this thing. And it had to be rebuilt. So I had to try and learn how to rebuild the engine to make it run. And that’s essentially where it started.

But turning wrenches was something I had to do. Once I did try to start racing something that then I had to work on it myself. Of course. Yes.

Crew Chief Eric: So at what age did you find yourself beginning to race? Was that in your teenage years or?

Andy Pilgrim: No, not at all. I ended up out of college. I went into computer programming, but I had no wheels to speak of at that time, except a secondhand motorcycle.

And I ended up taking that bike with the money that I started earning as a programmer, stuck some numbers on it and found myself at a local racetrack and ended up entering some races. This was mortifying to my parents. I mean, they were like, what on earth are you thinking? This is crazy. It’s dangerous and all this stuff.

But I was on the street riding a guy that I knew who was the manager of the Kawasaki dealership. He saw [00:06:00] me riding like a moron on the street and when he saw me at the dealership, he basically, you know, stuck me up against the wall. And if I see you riding like an idiot, you’re going to kill yourself. If you think you’re fast, get yourself on the racetrack.

I don’t ride like a moron. That’s sort of stuck with me because I was scared of him and I ended up trying to get my bike on the racetrack. It wasn’t particularly reliable. It wasn’t new. It was a seven, eight year old thing. I ended up wobbling through some races and early, fairly early on, I ended up winning the class.

It was a lower class bike, but I ended up scrapping with guys. And I was quick, quick enough to win, you know, win races from very, very, very early, just because I was probably nuts. I mean, because 55 percent of the races are in the wet. So it was an interesting beginning, but that’s how it started was when I had enough money, had a job, earned money, spent the money on the motorcycle to try and race.

I didn’t have a truck trailer, nothing. I either wrote it to the [00:07:00] races. Which was nuts because then you were just standing around in the wet and cold. Then you’d race it and then ride it home if you didn’t crash it. If I was lucky, a friend with a van who had a bread round at three o’clock in the morning, he was done with his bread round.

He’d come to the house, pick up the bike. I’d pay him gas money and drop me off at the racetrack. I had the best smelling motorcycle in the paddock. It smelled like bread. Everyone come by like, who’s baking bread? It’s like, you know, so it was pretty funny actually.

Crew Chief Eric: So this is the, let’s say late seventies at this point, right?

Andy Pilgrim: Late seventies into 1980, into 1980. I ended up getting sponsored after a year, year and a half. I was in the British production bike championship in the second year. I basically bought this. Newer bike, and was in the British 500cc production championship, ended up finishing second in the British championship, very competitive, and that was sort of into 1981, and then I got a job offer to come to the US as a computer programmer.

That’s where the switch happened over here. So. After less than two and a half years racing stuff and working full time in England, and then I [00:08:00] suddenly found myself in the U. S. I’d always wanted to come here. Always wanted to come to the U. S. Offered the job, you come over here and you start with a one year contract.

And I had an older friend of the family who was probably 10 years older than me. He was like an older brother, if you like. He went to California, had stories of the sunshine and warmth. And I hated cold weather. I still can’t stand cold weather. I’d always had this, probably from eight years old, I’d had this dream watching American shows on television in England when we had, you know, when we got TV and stuff.

Um, it was just, uh, it was just, I’d always wanted to come here. And little did I know at the time when I got into computer programming, that was a, almost a direct ticket to the U. S. because there weren’t enough. Programmers coming out of the U. S. education system that still aren’t. So I was one of those very lucky early ones to come in with the, uh, trade, if you like, to be a programmer.

And that’s how I got to the U. S.

Crew Chief Eric: So you hit the shores and you quickly realized America is huge and you need a car. So what was the first car you bought when you got here?

Andy Pilgrim: I was at Pontiac in Michigan as a computer [00:09:00] programmer, GM Pontiac, which was kind of strange. And I ended up back there as a racer years later and stuff.

One of the people in the office, her husband was selling their car, a 1972 Chevy Malibu Classic, and it had done a lot of miles, but it had done long runs. I guess it was an hour trip to work and back or something. And they said the car was pretty good. And I paid a thousand, I think, no, 500. I paid 500 for the car.

And it lasted me 45, 000 miles. It was amazing. That car was great. All I kept to do is put tires on it and brakes occasionally. But, uh, yeah, second hand tires. Couldn’t afford the new ones, but it was, uh, I was on first name basis with the local scrap yard and I go to look for tires for the car. Yeah. And I went from Michigan to El Paso after a year, Michigan winter just about killed me.

So I ended up going down to El Paso for my next contract. There was no racing or anything at this point.

Crew Chief Eric: So it’s kind of funny if our listeners were paying attention, your history with GM goes way back and we’re going to dive into that a little bit

Andy Pilgrim: more. If you think about it, yes. Sure.

Crew Chief Eric: The part of your story that really [00:10:00] engaged me that I found endearing and it speaks to me on a level growing VW Porsche Audi family is that when we first met many years ago, you told me the story about how you did get into racing in the United States and you started in two things.

A autocross and B with a Volkswagen GTI.

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah. The first go around in the Volkswagen GTI. So I was in El Paso. Everything was, uh, looking interesting and the Chevy Malibu classic was getting a little long in the tooth. And so eventually I thought, you know, a Volkswagen GTI was like, it was a Lamborghini as far as anything from a kid from the UK could even dream about.

And even though the US GTR wasn’t as light and it wasn’t as powerful as the European version, it was just wow to me. This 1983 car that I bought probably at the end of 1982 in El Paso, and it was a brand new car. And I was like, Oh, I couldn’t believe it. So I run around on that thing for a while. And [00:11:00] one day going down I 10, I saw a C 3 Corvette flying across a parking lot at Silla Vista Mall in El Paso.

And I thought, what the heck? And I looked, and I saw cones, and I saw this car. Parking lot was pretty much empty. I just went, what is that? So I got off the freeway, went around and, and looked. Sure, sure enough, it was an S C C A autocross going on, literally that by luck going by. And I didn’t know what A C C A was.

I didn’t know what autocross was. I had no idea that this was the local chapter of S E C A and their, their autocross was going on at Cali. I joined S E C A and the next time they had an autocross, I showed up with my Volkswagen Rabbit, and that’s how Autocross started. And that was 1983. Yep. And that was so much fun.

Great people. I still remember those, those people from there. They were wonderful.

Crew Chief Eric: So you got all your car control under wraps. You learned how to go fast in a front wheel drive. How do you move from, let’s say the grassroots world of autocross to the larger stage, not jumping all the way forward to endurance and that, but how did you make that [00:12:00] progression from autocross to becoming a professional driver?

Andy Pilgrim: The autocross availability for space in El Paso is limited. So you go further afield. Roswell, New Mexico was one of the places, you know, alien central UFOs and all that stuff. And I didn’t know about that connection when we went to Roswell, but it was a couple of hours drive out of El Paso to Roswell. 10 people would make these treks out to Roswell and Clovis Air Force Base, which was further away.

So we went to Roswell Pettengill. Jim Pattengill wrote for Grassroots Motorsports, the magazine, great magazine. He saw me at Roswell. Now the thing with Roswell was it was a triangle of a disused old airfield from Second World War training base probably or something like that. They had about seven cones.

And they have this triangle, like half a mile, literally speaking, it was a hundred mile an hour slalom and another 80 mile an hour slalom and 120 degree corners at each, each point, it was just stupid. [00:13:00] So I’m in this 90 horsepower rabbit screaming along going through the autocross on three wheels and all this stuff.

Jim Pattengill came up to me and said, you know, you’re pretty quick. You should try racing. And I said, well, you’ve got any money. I’ll be happy to do that because I don’t have any money. We had a nice, really nice conversation. And he said, well, you know, just keep doing what you do. It’s great. You know, you’re coming back.

And I did come back three months later to another event. They, we’ve got, they had another event three months later and we trucked back up. I didn’t think really, I didn’t think about Jim Pattengill in the meantime, he came up during that event and showed me a thing in grassroots motorsports where. A guy was selling a Renault cup and he took the time to explain this is an IMSA series, Renault Cup, Renault Alliances on the west coast and Renault Encores on the east coast.

Renault supports it and these cars are street legal and this car is second hand for 6, 500 bucks. Because I told him I said I don’t want to race for trophies. Got to race for [00:14:00] money. If there’s any chance to do anything with racing, you know, we had to chat and I said, I didn’t, I wouldn’t want to race for trophies and things.

I need to, if I’m any good, I want to learn as fast as possible. If I’m any good and not waste my whole life or money doing it. So he gave me the ad. I called the guy, I was in Nevada. Long story short, I borrowed some money off a bank manager in El Paso. I only had 3, 500 in savings, I remember. This guy lent me 3, 000 for furniture for my apartment.

It was the other half of the car, essentially, and gave me a bit of spare money for the first race. And so I figured if he ever came to the house and checked the car, I’d take the seats out of the race car and put them in the living room and say, furniture. So that’s what happened. And I got this Renault Cup car, drove it to the races, and that’s how it started.

Essentially, the first race was Riverside, California, in 1984, was the first round of the West Coast Series. 51 cars entered. It was actually on ESPN. Believe it or not, that race was on TV. Crazy. I [00:15:00] ended up qualifying 18th out of 51, and I finished 9th, and I won 500. I mean, I was sleeping in the car or we’d have like 12 of us in one hotel room or something.

Cause you know, there was a bunch of guys that were just, we didn’t have the, you know, a lot of money and where we could save money. We would, I mean that 500, I thought I won the Indy 500. Honestly, it was like 146 for a set of four tires for that car. I still have a receipt. So 500 was tremendous and I didn’t crash the car.

Otherwise it’d be taking a bus home. And that would have been it. But I managed to make it through that year with the car, got a couple of podiums in that year, one rookie of the year with that car. That was the end of 1984. 85, I did a couple more Renault Cup races, but sold the car for 3, 000. And that money, having sold the car was the money that I put into buying two weekends in a Firestone Firehawk car in 1986.

And that sort of was that transition because the rental [00:16:00] car series died and I was like, Oh, well, that might be it for racing did a bit of NCCA racing with a Mustang, a dealer out of Texas, sort of had a car and he said you can drive my car. That was 85. Met somebody who prepared that Mustang, who was also preparing Pontiacs in the Firestone Fire series.

I knew nothing about that. At the end of the season, he said, you know, blah, blah, what are you going to do? You’ve really done quite well in that Mustang. And I said, well, I’ve got 3, 000. And he called me and said, that’ll buy you two races at the beginning of 1986. Season in a fire some fire if you want to do it.

And that was all savings. I had nothing outside. Nothing else. That was all my savings. That’s how I got into that series. I’ll stop there instead of just dribbling along the whole way.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, it brings up a very good segue, which is did you practice your craft on your own back then? There was no data. So you’re obviously driving by feel or did you have coaches?

Did you have people helping you along or was it all 1 race at a time? School of hard knocks.

Andy Pilgrim: I [00:17:00] mean, there was no coach motorcycles. And I had an idea about apexing, but I didn’t even call it an apex because I was, you know, you go from outside to inside to outside and you’ve, some corners are different to others.

And no, I didn’t know anybody to do anything like, you know, I think most people guys back then they did, they just learned, they just were quick and. They got quicker and they learned and it became more structured over the years. It became way more structured, as you say, with data and coaches and things like that.

Crew Chief Eric: So did you find yourself following anyone using them as like a lead follow as an example?

Andy Pilgrim: Oh, 150%. If someone caught me up, instead of trying to block them, I’d let them by and try and learn where they were quicker. And that’s exactly what I did. And that wasn’t like I was the fastest guy out there.

Immediately. I had to learn how to handle the car fast corners in those cars, kind of like a Mazda Miata. You just kind of, I want to say, throw it in, but you drifted in. You want that very slight drift angle all the way through these fast corners. That takes a little bit of understanding because you can over over rotate the car and crash it and I’m done [00:18:00] eventually by following figured it out.

Guys that I knew were quick. And I would ask people who’s, you know, you’d look at the timesheet and you’d, you’d slowly progress up the timesheet, figure out how to get there. If you could.

Crew Chief Eric: So at this point, you’re deeper into the racing world. Did you have any heroes or idols or even anybody you looked up to as a kid that you were still looking up to in the larger kind of circus that is the motor sports world?

Andy Pilgrim: It’s funny. I didn’t relay anything sort of. I don’t know why it was a separate, there’s maybe a separation. Yeah, Mike Halewood was a motorcycle rider. Giacomo Agostini was a motorcycle rider that I would see at the racetrack where my dad taught me when I was young. So obviously they were people well known to me.

I know a ton of names because I was young in the 1960s, not so much from the 70s and 80s and onwards, except, you know, Valentino Rossi and some of the guys now. It wasn’t that I had heroes, but looking now, later, When I was in 90s, out in Senna, of [00:19:00] course. Senna, absolutely staggering talent, uh, but that was probably the driver who his focus, determination, competitiveness, that was probably the more modern person that I, I sort of thought, you know, there’s a lot.

There that you can learn from a person like that.

Crew Chief Eric: So let’s step back into the timeline. Here we are in the late 80s. You’re in a Ford. So what happens next?

Andy Pilgrim: Well, the Ford was SCCA 1 year deal with the dealer out of Plano, Texas, which I have now moved from El Paso to Plano, Texas. I’ve moved into the quote unquote management world.

The dealer there wanted to run this Mustang and I was. Lucky enough that he said, Hey, you can run this Mustang. I was kind of growing around, seeing if anyone wanted a young race car driver to race anything, just like you do at that time. After that, like I said, I still had the Renault Cup car, but the Renault Cup series ended.

I sold the Renault in 86. A guy called Jeff Beitzel, the late [00:20:00] Jeff Beitzel, actually he passed away a few years ago. Jeff was the guy who said, you know, you’ve got 3, 000, I will buy you two weekends in this team that we’re putting together. It was sort of related to Pontiac because one of the guys on the team worked at GM Pontiac and that didn’t hurt.

Those two races, I bought those two races, co driver was Bill Bailey. We didn’t win, but Firehawk back then was so competitive. You’d have a hundred car fields. You’d have 50 cars in the grand sport class, massively competitive. And we ended up with like top five finishing fairly quickly. Bill wasn’t a bad driver, gentleman driver.

And I was managing to help lift us into that top 10, uh, and he wasn’t doing bad himself, but between us. Uh, we got some reasonable finishes and I enjoyed working with the team. He was a nice guy after those two races. It was, I was done. I said, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you very much. And all the rest of it.

And I, and Bill said, well, we’ll see you next week. I said, no, that was it. I’ve only got the 3000. Jeff was kind enough to bring me in and he said, okay, all right. Well, Andy, it’s been [00:21:00] great. Thanks very much. And off I went the next week. He called on the phone and said, look, you can’t afford to keep going at the rate what you pay.

I understand that. He said, Can you get yourself to the races? And I said, Yeah, sure. I think I can do that. Yeah. He said, Okay, well, I’d like you to drive mid me for the rest of the season. And that was, that was huge, because otherwise my career, you know, would have been. Well, it would have been over until I saved enough money to try again or something like that.

Yeah, but that’s what literally got me to Firestone High. We finished probably third in the championship. We won two races in 86. We won Sonoma and we won Portland. It got me noticed on a bigger stage because there were a lot of Trans Am drivers, even IndyCar drivers that would race in that series for fun.

And we loved it. I mean, when somebody like the answers showed up or the Andretti showed up, whether it was the world challenge series, the old playboy series, we loved it because our showroom stock based cars, [00:22:00] they weren’t really faster than the quick guys, but it was so cool. You know, Scott Pruitt, other people would be in there and you’re running against guys that, you know, really famous guys.

And it was, it was, it was great fun.

Crew Chief Eric: So is this then the precipice of your journey with GM, or is there something that leads up to you becoming part of that? Because I know our listeners are dying to learn more about your experience with Team Cadillac and Corvette Racing, and we’ll get there. You know, I want to kind of go through the chronology here a little bit.

Andy Pilgrim: The Firestone Firehort series, at the time, there was the Bridgestone Supercar series, there was the Firestone Firehort series. There was the World Challenge slash, you know, series as well in the early 90s, late 80s, early 90s. I was running in all three of those series, but I didn’t have a full time ride all the time after 1990, 91.

But people will call me and say, Hey, we need you for these races, or we need you for those races. And I got to do all three and they were running on showroom tires, shaved street tires, whether they were the Bridgestones, whether they were the [00:23:00] Firestones, whether they were the Goodyears, Goodyear actually had a sticky tire that they ran in, in the world challenge series.

And that was more like a race tire, but it was still, they still weren’t slicks. Early nineties. I got into Sebring and the Daytona 24 hours with Morrison Motorsports. With a car with slicks, and that was a big deal to run a Corvette with slicks. Wasn’t the very first time I was on slicks. I had a bit of sponsorship in 1988 or nine, and I did four barbershop races in a, in a formula car.

This guy came and said, you know, Hey, would you race? You know, I got four races in that. So that was my first time on slicks. But then I ran that Corvette from that Corvette and the Lotus 1994 five, I got my first opportunity when somebody who used to run Larry Schumacher who used to run the Firestone Fireholt series.

He said, Hey, would you like to run in a Porsche with me? He was running now in the IMSA series, the one that does the Daytona 12 hours of Sebring. [00:24:00] And my first time in a Porsche was with Larry Schumacher at the 12 hours of Sebring. And I think that was 1995. That was a huge thing. I mean, wow, to get in a Porsche now, it was like the other cars were showroom stock based, but the Porsche was a proper right now based on 911, of course.

But it was still a proper race car and it was, wow, it was like a huge move. I was, I remember it well, you know, that was great. And I was getting paid during this time. You actually earned money, a thousand dollars for the weekend or 1, 500 for the weekend. You could actually make money. Basic business wise, I was still had a full time job.

In 1989, I had to make a decision because I was getting rides in three different series, not consistently, but gosh, it was like 30 races a year, 30 weekends a year. The people I was working for were really good, but it was difficult. So I took my 20, 000 in savings and said, okay, I’m quitting this job for [00:25:00] 90 grand a year.

And I was earning maybe 45, 000 racing. And of course, you quit the job where you’re earning twice as much, right? With possibilities and everything. I said, okay, I’ve got 20 grand in savings. I started a little IT consulting company because that was the business I was in. Because then I could concentrate on trying to grow this racing career if there was a chance.

Luckily for me, I won’t bore you with going through all of that, but I hired four key people in the first three or four years of that company. They ran the company for me, which allowed me to try to race. I had to still sign paychecks and do all the rest of it was still all on me. They gave me the opportunity while keeping the business going and growing to a degree.

If I’d have spent more time in the business, it might’ve been a really bigger business, but the bottom line is they knew what my goal was when I hired them and they were quite happy to do that. So in 95, getting into Porsche’s 95 also was my first pro championship win. I’d been [00:26:00] second or third in other championships, but I never won a pro championship and they Speed vision cup series with Pontiac, still with Jeff Weitzel.

That was my first opportunity running with Joe Vardy. Vardy’s still around, brilliant driver, great teammate. And I managed to win that championship running with Vardy. We got split up during the year, which is why I won the championship and he didn’t. But that 95 was a big year. Getting to run in Porsche and some of the endurance races.

And also running with Vardy in that when I’m winning an actual pro championship and then 96, 7, 8, I won championships every year for those 4 years

Crew Chief Eric: and the winds kept coming. I’m going to put this in perspective for people. You’re a winner of the 12 hours of Sebring, 2 wins in the Petit Le Mans, 3 wins at the 24 hours of Rolex.

One overall and two GT class for Rolex. Yeah. And five podiums at the 24 hours of LeMans. I mean, yeah. Holy smokes. Yeah. So let’s talk very fortunate. Let’s talk about all [00:27:00] these races, especially LeMans. How about some of the more memorable moments throughout all those huge races?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, and again, you get an opportunity to go to Lamar.

Of course, it was a dream 1996. I was sort of on the notice board as far as Porsche at the time, I wasn’t a factory driver, but I was driving with teams that were sort of associated with the Porsche team. And I was given this opportunity to drive with the new hardware guys out of New Zealand. And they had me come in there.

So you’re at Le Mans and you’re in this GT car. The cars run about 188 miles an hour down the straightaway. Porsche has always had really good aero, slippery car. And they were, you know, not high downforce cars. They were GT cars, but they’d run well. You’d have the prototypes that you had to watch out for, of course.

So during those times, learning the Lamont track, which of course, you know, there’s no videos to look at or anything else, really. [00:28:00] You go there and you walk around a bit and it’s like, well, you’re going to go walk the track. We’ll be back next Thursday, because it’s, you know, 8. 2 miles. So you run a car on the public road portion, but there’s nothing like actually being out there with everybody and then trying to figure it out.

Where can you actually break on the straightaway? Where, you know, how quick can you actually go through the Porsche curves? And it was just. Baptism by fire. And then I’m in my first night stint in 96 and it’s pitch black going down the back straight away. You’re overdriving the lights by 80, a hundred miles an hour.

The lights are, you know, that you have lights, but they really don’t. And it was pitch black and there was an orange glow before you come up the hump to turn right into Molson corner. And I came over there as I was coming up the hill, there was a corner work in the middle on the white line with a flat.

Well, my lights were garbage and I was kind of like coming on left side of the road because I could see [00:29:00] this orange glow, but the orange glow was like. It was making the guy and the flag disappear. I couldn’t see it. I finally saw it at the last split second, moved right, went flying over the top, started to hit the brakes, of course, and there was a Porsche GT1 on the left side, completely engulfed in flames.

And it was like, good grief. I almost hit the guy. I mean, I can still see it. The corner workers are nuts. I mean, they’ll get on the track with the flags. It was just one of those things. And I’m like, this is crazy. Later on, like at three o’clock in the morning, I’m going down towards Indianapolis, long straight away with a curve and it’s a fast curve.

And then you just arc into Indy towards Indianapolis corner before the break zone. And I saw some grass in the air. I didn’t see lights ahead of me, but I saw some grass in the air and I thought, well, something must’ve happened. And there was a freaking prototype right online. Sideways really bent. I mean, [00:30:00] really bits all over and the worst corner workers, but around the corner and again, they weren’t in the road.

Thank goodness. But I had hex on job, just getting the car under control, pulling it back to the right and just missing the whole thing. And it’s like your heart is in your mouth. It’s like, what am I nuts? This is crazy. But it’s like, it was amazing. It’s amazing doing that race. I’m so glad I got the opportunities to do it, you know, six times.

Uh, but the first year was something else. It was something else. You know, those early moments stay with you, you know, crazy, crazy.

Crew Chief Eric: So you have a reputation of being probably one of the nicest people in racing, and I’m not trying to over inflate your ego, but it’s true. But during this time period, there was always this concept of rivalries.

I mean, they go back right hunt versus louder center versus promise. So did you have any rivals in racing.

Andy Pilgrim: Well, yes, of course, everybody that’s ahead of [00:31:00] you in a championship or a race is a rival per se, but there were no, there were no specific people that I got to beat that guy or anything like that. No, not really.

Friends became, many became friends. Randy Popes. And I would run against each other many times. Of course, Johnno, you know, and I, gosh, there’s loads of them. You know, the loads of guys I completely respect. And then absolutely get into the European stuff or the international stuff, or the big races you end up with guys that were in Formula One, I mean, you know, Bob Wallach, Terry Boots, and Ish, uh, max Papas, max Angeli.

These guys are Oliver Gavin. They’ve done things in Formula One, and you’re like, This guy’s Formula One driver. You compare your data to a guy who’s been in Formula One. And I mean, I was in awe. I was old when I started. I was 27 when I got into a factory team in factory Corvette. I was 40 years old when I got that opportunity to get into Corvette racing.

I think because I started so late and because it wasn’t easy to get in. I think I still have almost like a [00:32:00] childish view of this in the sense of like, these guys are working on this car. It’s not my car and I’m getting this opportunity. It doesn’t matter if it’s a Mazda Miata, somebody wants you to test around a racetrack or something.

When I get in the car, I respect the fact that guys have spent money on it. It may not be, they may not have all the money and they want me to test or set up the car or help them set up the car. And it’s a genuine privilege. It’s gratitude and it’s excitement. I love getting in different cars that I’ve never raced before.

And I think, you know, the rivalries for me, maybe ended up with friendships. Some of the guys, yeah, some of the guys don’t want to be friends with the people they race against. I respect that too. That’s fine. I don’t try and go out of my way if you don’t want to be friends. It’s fine. Our friend Lee, that’s fine.

I get it. That’s a psychological thing for some of the guys. I’ve just been always so grateful for being there. I’m generally happy most of the time when I’m in the paddock, you know?

Crew Chief Eric: I would be remiss if I didn’t ask a series of Pit Stop questions before we transition on to the [00:33:00] later part of the story.

So of all the cars you’ve raced and driven over the years, is there a favorite? Or is there a least favorite? I know it’s like picking amongst children, right? Is there really a favorite? And in that same vein, are there favorite and least favorite tracks?

Andy Pilgrim: Definitely tracks. Definitely tracks. I got an opportunity in 2017 to drive with Charlie Partman and Charles Espenlav and Joe Foster.

in some races, international races, and they ended up taking me to Bathurst and the Nürburgring. That was such a privilege to do that and go to those tracks. And also some of the other tracks in Europe, I’d been to some of the other tracks in Europe. Monza in Italy was another one that I got a chance to go to in 1999.

Those tracks and those opportunities were wonderful. But in the US, Elkhart Lake, all day long Elkhart Lake. I think every pro driver has it in their top three. If it’s not the number one for me, it’s number one for sure. But there are some great tracks in the US. Road [00:34:00] Atlanta. I love Sears Point. Laguna Seca.

Polder’s actually a great track to drive. Mid Ohio’s fun. I wish there were more overtaking points in it, but it’s still a very technical, challenging racetrack. There’s so many great tracks in the U. S., for sure.

Crew Chief Eric: So no, no favorite car? Cars. Yeah, cars.

Andy Pilgrim: No, there’s no favorite, but so many good ones. I mean, the Corvette C5R, the Corvette C6R, I drove a little bit with Ron Fellows in a C6R, which was a lot of fun.

The BMWs, the PTG cars with Bill Oberlin and Boris Sedd, having a chance to drive that car with those GT2 and the GT3 cars, versions of those was a lot of fun. Gosh, there’s so many, so many great cars. Even the old Pontiac Firestone Firehawk car was, was actually fun.

Crew Chief Eric: Outside of all the race cars, is there a sexiest car of all time?

Something that really gets you excited?

Andy Pilgrim: Mmm, I’m not going to say what I normally say, which would be a Kia Soul. Because I kind of like boxy cars and I’m a big fan of the Pontiac [00:35:00] Aztec. So the fact that most people have just turned off the broadcast. I do like funny, weird looking cars, but in all seriousness, probably the Aston Martins, the style of the Aston Martins and the style of the Ferraris is probably, they’re just beautifully designed cars, beautifully designed cars.

And I’m like, I’d love to look at those cars. I have some weird taste in street cars.

Crew Chief Eric: Not to stereotype, but I would have put money down if you, to guess, to say that you would have said the E Type Jag, but you know, whatever.

Andy Pilgrim: E Type, yeah, well, that’s well, iconic design to say the least, but I was put off somewhat that car.

I never had an opportunity to drive one, but I was told by a friend of mine who used to race historic racing. He said, they’ll basically wander all over the place at a hundred miles an hour plus because of the terrible aerodynamics from the design of the front that causes the lift. Yeah. And so it was a car that I was not at that point because everything when you’re younger, you get in it, you want to go flat out, but he, [00:36:00] uh, he basically said, do you ever get a chance to drive an e type, whether it’s a historic race or just on the streets, it’d be careful.

He said, you might be testing the top end of the car, but they’re not the most stable cars, but yeah, beautiful cars to look at.

Crew Chief Eric: Another question I’m sure people want to know, what does Andy Pilgrim daily drive?

Andy Pilgrim: Well, at the moment I’m driving a new Toyota Supra. Actually, the uh, carbon fiber edition. Yeah, I managed to get one.

I go through cars fairly quickly these days. I liked the Supra when I tested it for Automobile Motor Trend 2020 and I thought this is a great little car. When the CF came out, They were asking crazy money for it and I managed to find one in South Carolina for just a shade under M Ss r P. And I thought, oh, I’m gonna go with that one.

So that’s what I’m actually driving at the moment. And I have a Honda Ground. Yeah, Honda Grand Motorcycle, which is just so much fun on the Kentucky Back Road series. So, well, a horsepower is all I should try to handle these days. ,

Crew Chief Eric: any desire around the Nissan Z? The new one?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, I’ve saw a video and I, I saw, saw a drag race [00:37:00] video of the card, you know, like a.

quarter mile run. Seems like it’s certainly got some 400 horsepower, nice car, and apparently rivaling the Supra. So I’ll look forward to testing, hopefully test one at the Motorsports racetrack here in Bowling Green at some point.

Crew Chief Eric: All right, one final pit stop question. Andy, is there something still on the bucket list, a race that you haven’t been able to get to yet, or a track that you still want to drive, or even a car, a race car that you want to get behind the wheel of?

Andy Pilgrim: Having been to so many great tracks, Suzuka, Fuji, I have never raced anything in Japan, so there’s Bucket List there, and also Spa, but the team I’m with right now, I’m helping young Anthony Bartone this year, and Anthony had a wish to go to Spa to do the Fun Cup, so I would say that that in July is going to be another, hopefully another thing off the Bucket List if it all comes to pass, so I will race at Spa because that was the other track, the only other track really that I haven’t.

Race that, that I really wanted to race, you know, Monza, like I said, Bathurst, [00:38:00] you know, having gone to Bathurst, having gone to the Nürburgring race there, just being at those places that they were definite bucket list and Spa was a little bit lower down, but they’re going to get a chance. It looks like so.

Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Alright, so let’s get back to it. So as part of your time with GM, you’ve been involved for many years with the National Corvette Museum Motorsports Park and known to many of us as just NCM. GTM has been there several times and I actually learned the track in a funny way. I showed up and Pat Sullivan grabs me by the shoulder and he goes, you’re getting in that car and your instructors waiting for you.

For you and I jump in, not paying any attention to look over and it was you. So you were in Pat’s borrowed ZR1 and about 20 minutes later, I’m like, okay, I got this and you had no fear in just showing me the race line and saying, here it is, have a nice day, you know, go about your business. We had a lot of fun over those weekends, but one of the things I get asked a lot by people that haven’t been to NCM, and it’s [00:39:00] one of the things that you told me is NCM is not a racetrack.

It’s a test track. So do you care to explain the difference and why that’s important to people that might be wanting to go there for the first time?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, I mean, it is a race track, but when I say the testing track, meaning that it’s a track to learn, it’s one of the best learning tracks I’ve ever seen.

Because it’s got every type of corner and the way that they have it usually is NCM Motorsports Park. So we kind of call it the MSP, the Motorsports Park. Because NCM is actually the National Corvette Museum. With that being said, the track at the MSP, 3. 2 mile 23 turn track, is magnificent learning track.

It’s great. They don’t have official racing there, but they do have some NASA races there, some SCCA type races there. It’s a brilliant track to learn. I mean, if you are within 500 miles of this place, it is great. And I consult here. I’ve been sort of consulting here for about four years now, very much enjoying.

So I decided to move from South Florida completely. [00:40:00] I sold my IT business in 2018. And so I’m very much enjoying my time here in Bowling Green. And so, yeah, it’s a great place. And we’ve taken like, well, the guy I’m with Anthony right now, he’s. He came 11 months ago, he’d never been on a racetrack, never been on ATV, never done go karts, never done anything.

And we just did our first SRO GT4 race last weekend. And he did very well in the sense that he kept a nose clean. He was right in the middle of the AMS and did a super job, but he learned all of the basic skills at the NCM Motorsports Park. Yeah, it’s a great, great learning journey.

Crew Chief Eric: Now, one of the things I distinctly remember about NCM that you had told me, and I will never forget, and I try to pass this on to everybody that goes there, at least for the first time, or that I’ve instructed now many times after these many years that I’ve been going there, is that you actually have to learn the track in three pieces.

And I remember you were like, and this turn is like this track, and this is like the Glen, and this is like here. And for me, I was [00:41:00] able to put that puzzle together, but you had specifically said. You need to learn this in three pieces and then stitch it together. Otherwise it doesn’t really work because the rhythm is different than a track that has natural terrain, like summit point or Watkins Glen, where it was built in to the earth versus something that was specifically designed to test the Corvettes and the Corvette race cars.

Andy Pilgrim: Yes. It’s a very challenging technical track and it’s a very long layout. And they, they managed to get 3. 2 miles out of it. And, you know, certainly the Corvette race team came at the very beginning to test there and, you know, they wanted to incorporate corners where race teams, like the Nissan team came there before they went to Lamar because they have a.

Turn one, AB, is just the same shape as the first chicane at Le Mans. And so, and the, the cars were reaching within two miles an hour on the long straightaway there, the long layout straightaway, not the regular straightaway. They got within two miles an hour of the top speed at Le Mans there. So you can test aerodynamics and things like that.

[00:42:00] So. It has been used for testing by teams that end up going to Le Mans. But yes, it’s like Elkhart Lake. Elkhart Lake is a long track and I learned that just generally because I split it. Turn one through to five, then five through to Canada Corner and then Canada Corner back. It was just the way that I learned it when I first went there in the 1980s, late 80s.

It just seems to help because you learn little bits and just put them together and it becomes more natural.

Crew Chief Eric: So having driven many different types of Corvettes at NCM MSP, what do you think about the classic front engine rear drive Corvettes versus the new mid engine C8?

Andy Pilgrim: This is a great, great question, really, because we have C7s there that kind of tow the C8s around.

The obvious thing is the Tremec transmission in the new C8. So the launch, you know, you’ve got a sub three seconds, zero to 60, which is no way can you match that with a automatic or stick shift. C7 when you’ve got such a little weight on the back wheel, you’re going to get the [00:43:00] wheel spin, uh, which is fairly typical.

The cars are fairly similar on straight away performance because the power of the C7 is a little bit less like 20 or 30 horsepower less, but the, uh, C8 weighs about a couple of hundred pounds more than the C7. But the actual driving, of course, the greenhouse in the C8 is kind of like, you know, a lot of mid engine cars.

You can see so well out the front, you get a great view of the track. And I think that’s what most people that come and try the car doing touring laps and things there. They come in their C7s or C5s or 6s and then they get in the C8. It’s like I felt like I was sitting in the road. There’s nothing in front of me and it takes them a while to get used to it and then they really, really like it.

And it’s an exotic, it’s more of an exotic shape of course. There’s a lot to be said for that design in the sense of how far you can take it. So the guys that are now modifying the C8s on the tracks, and they’re going really quick, putting sticky tires on, doing a little bit of [00:44:00] suspension work, changing the brakes, and they don’t have to do too much, but the chassis, what I’m hearing from those guys is that the chassis stays with you, and that chassis, it’ll handle more power, which we know is probably going to happen down the road, and it’ll handle the braking, it handles the stickier tires, very, very well.

And so I think you’ve got a car that’s, uh, the potential of that chassis is very, very, very good. And it drives so nicely, but they do drive different. They do drive different as you drive a front engine and mid engine race car slightly different. You have to watch your hands, speed.

Crew Chief Eric: So do you think that the C8 will benefit from a hybrid system like an NSX?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah, I think any of the hybrids, and I’ve driven a lot of hybrids because I’ve been working with CNET cars and also with automobile for a long time. So I’ve done quite a bit of work with electric Porsche. Taycan came over there. I’ve had some opportunities to deal with a Draco 1200 horsepower for electric [00:45:00] motor.

Vehicle. I do some test driving for them. And so I’m quite familiar with the way some of the electric stuff works. Now it’s very heavy. I’ve also taken the NSX around the motor sports park as well. The weight comes with the hybrid setup, but then you’ve got that all wheel drive and there’s once they have the brain, the CPU sorted out that makes the seamless transition with the motor.

And a hybrid power. Once that gets sorted out, you can use those motors to help turn the car help really balance out the difficulties when you have a high powered two wheel drive car. And that’s what I’ve noticed. with working on traction control systems and stability control systems with the electric vehicles.

The ability to tune the computer to really help drive out of corners, help to allow more [00:46:00] aggressive. Turn ins to the corner and how it can actually help stabilize the car in various aspects. I think over the next five years, once they become more popular and common in basic higher end performance sports cars, I think it’s going to be unbelievable how quick the cars are going to be able to go around racetracks.

You’ve always going to have the extra weight, but I think the potential is going to outreach what we have now, whether that’s good or bad. I’m a technology person. I don’t mind all electric vehicles. I’m totally happy using a PDK over a manual transmission. I’m not one of these journalists that like, Oh, you got to have a stick shift or that, you know, it’s like, okay, fine.

I don’t care. It’s not just because it’s faster, but I’m fine if I don’t have them. The cars are so good, there’s so much grip in some of the street cars now, actually trying to manipulate the gear lever like going down turn four to five at Road Atlanta in a car that’s got a ton of [00:47:00] stick and downforce like a, you know, imagine an RS, a GT3 RS or the ZL1 Corvette, and you’re trying to manage, you’re not, you’re in a street seat.

You don’t have a six point harness on, you’re rattling around like a bowling ball in a jar. It’s very difficult to make quick, precise shifts. Why not have a transmission that actually makes it very much easier to manage the car or even let the car do it themselves? I like technology, I like history, I like stick shift vehicles, but I don’t get stuck.

Whatever I’ve got is good.

Crew Chief Eric: Then I guess your feelings on the alleged E Ray are quite positive then, which of the all electric Corvette.

Andy Pilgrim: Well, yeah, supposing there is such an animal. I think having driven the Draco, which is all electric with four motors, and the way that I’ve worked with an engineer to help their drive controls.

I think people are just going to be stunned if you haven’t driven a Tesla Plaid. And the zero to 60 and two flat or two one or whatever it is in [00:48:00] actuality, it’s actually uncomfortable for most people, you can get whiplash, you can cause a passenger, you don’t like the passenger, you can, you know, you can basically upset them and very easily.

I think the the performance is going to outstrip people’s ability very quickly with these electric vehicles. So much performance that race cars can’t even match in a straight line drag cause. I mean, these cars are being sold on the street and you’d have to have a full harness system parachutes. If you were going to the local drag strip for a car that does 150 miles an hour in a quarter mile and a low nine.

I don’t have a problem with it being there, but you wonder sometimes whether these cars should come with a, a bit of training rather than just sales training to know how to use the wifi. You may need to actually have someone trained in some of this stuff, because you can get to 100 miles an hour in five seconds, then you are in something extraordinarily fast.

And I don’t think the average driver [00:49:00] is going to be expecting this. Or they’ll just never use it. Any electric vehicle, any electric sports car, once they get a handle on how to use the motors and how to do the TC, any sports car, that’s all electric is going to be devastatingly fast.

Crew Chief Eric: You touched on a couple of important things here, and it’s a great segue into maybe passing on some knowledge to aspiring drivers.

And one of the things you mentioned early on is that you drove by feel and by instinct. And obviously data came later because you grew up through the digital era, through the data era of race car driving. So now do you find yourself still driving by feel? Do you use data? Is it a combination? I know people get really religious about this particular question.

You know, it’s all data or nothing. And some people are like, yeah, whatever. What are your thoughts on that?

Andy Pilgrim: I’ve been on race teams where the data was king. And the engineers would not necessarily listen to a driver in the sense that I see what I see on the [00:50:00] data, and even though you’re telling them something that might contradict that, there’s a tendency to just like, yeah, okay, but the data is telling me this.

I definitely think that as far as the data is concerned now, I utilize everything I can because one, I’m old. I mean, shoot, I’m in my mid sixties now. I’m basically running in a series, you know, GT four is a series where you’ve got some absolutely stunningly quick young guys helping Anthony. We go over data religiously and then Danton is learning from me.

So I have to be able to translate that data and sometimes I will learn like Johnny O’Connor, Johnny O’Connor, O’Connor and I drove together for five years, Johnny and I drive differently. He likes a car that is off the front. I like a car that. Is loose on the way in. If I have a car, that’s an understeering car, I don’t particularly like it.

And I don’t trust it, especially on a street course. If you’re having to drive it into a corner with an understeer to get it to go quick, [00:51:00] I don’t like that. I will prefer to let me feel the rear and I’ll steer it through the corner, you know, on the rear of the car. That’s something that you need an engineer to listen to you and give you what you want, whatever the data is.

Something like that. So data is absolutely useful for sure. When you’re trying to train someone. And I learned from Johnny, I learned from Alan McNish on data that was in the late nineties, 99, 98. And my God, how can I not learn in a prototype slash GT one Porsche from Alan McNish? I learned a tremendous amount.

One that. Alan was able to drive the GT1 Evo like he was driving a rental Cadillac, you know, going into turn 10 at Sears Point, he would lose the car twice before the apex. He would like throw it in. Oh, it wasn’t quite right. I throw it in again, all while just going to the apex now. And I thought to myself, well, I’m not going to try that this session, but I worked my way up to trusting [00:52:00] to me.

That was like, it was more than anything I’d ever driven. I hadn’t ever driven any, but you know, a GT three car at that time. And this Evo thing with 800 horsepower. Because we were running against full prototypes, so they uncorked the engine, you know, no ABS, no traction control. Learning from Alan in that car taught me that at that time, that was the most sophisticated data.

And since then, I have a tremendous, now I’m a computer programmer, right? So that’s data, I respect data anyway. But learning, I learned to learn from the data. Ron Fellows or Oliver Gavin or Max Angioletti, you know, Alan would have different ways into a corner. And I might be quicker. You’d look at the pluses and the minus on the way in, but we drove differently from what my own experience, not many pro drivers like to have a car that’s more loose.

Most of them want to drive off the front tires. I don’t know whether that why necessarily, but that’s just been my experience. You can learn from that. And sometimes you blend what’s your natural style, some corners you might. No, if you drive [00:53:00] off the front, you’re going to be quicker. And then you still in the other corners where you can just lose the back end, like faster corners.

If you can just control the back, you can maintain more speed through and you don’t have to adjust the steering because if you’re going too quick to a fast corner, you’re running off the front, you just have to wait a little bit because if you get a sustained understeer, you can’t get back. But if you can rotate it.

Another two or three degrees on the way in, you can fly out, get NOLA last weekend. I was pretty quick through the faster back section corners. And I love those types of corners, you know? Yeah. So it

Crew Chief Eric: brings you back to your days of your GTI. That’s all.

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Right.

Andy Pilgrim: You know, three wheels, of course, always be open, never be closed minded.

Always think you can learn something from a teammate, you can learn something from following some folks, try their line, never be closed minded about anything. I think I’ve always been open minded and tried to change and learn as I go. And I’m still learning. I’m still learning.

Crew Chief Eric: So one of the other questions that comes up is how do [00:54:00] you prep for race?

Is it just, you know, spending time at the track? You’ve been to so many tracks. It’s just experience. Is there any sort of, let’s say regimen you go through workouts, do you use simulators or anything like that? I mean, that’s like the hotness right now, right? Is everybody’s on iRacing now?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah. My teammate Anthony is on sim.

He’s never been to most of these tracks. He’s never seen any of them. So he’s doing sim work and he gets there and it’s got him to a point when he gets there that he’s already. Got an idea where he is going. It’s not like when I first went to tracks. Nothing else. I don’t use a simulator. I do work out. I continue to do that because you have to, some of the races I do with the Ferrari, it’s a, Jen wants G T three car.

Some of those races are not, are 75 minutes. Just long enough stint that, and it doesn’t have a, it just has sort of a fan in the car. It gets very hot in there. So yes, I have to continue to work out and be prepared in that sense. Don’t do simulator work. I did before I went to the Nürburgring, I basically bought a PlayStation essentially, and learned as much as I could from [00:55:00] the Nürburgring, because out of respect for that place, I had to.

And also I learned before I went to Bathurst as well, for the same reason, just to get more of an idea. And it did help. Unless you have a 5 million simulator, the topography is not there. So that’s the biggest difference. But I think simulators are useful. Data is useful. Working out, absolutely, you should stay as fit as you possibly can.

And I still try to do that. Absolutely. I want to be as good as I can be for the whole time I’m in the car.

Crew Chief Eric: Before we move on to the last part of this episode, I want to ask you one more question. You know, we talked about how you… Looked up to drivers when you were younger, and now you find yourself in that position yourself.

There’s plenty of people out there listening to this now that are looking up to Andy Pilgrim going, he’s one of my heroes, what advice, what golden nugget would you pass on to these folks? Maybe some sort of inspiration to say, you can do it too.

Andy Pilgrim: In the sense of the money aspects, I do get a lot of people either emailing me, messaging through social media, or just talking [00:56:00] to me at the racetrack.

And they tell them just a little bit like, look, I didn’t have money. I’d started at 27. That’s the one that gets them because it’s like you got into factory cars when you’re in your forties. And it’s like, yeah, I had a factory GM contract up to 2018 when I was 61 years old. The point being that you have to have a plan.

You have to have focus. There are things in life that come up, don’t add to the trauma that will come in life anyway, do your best to stay focused, have a plan, if it’s racing related, if you don’t have a lot of money, try and pick a series, try and save some money to at least get yourself into a series where you might get good experience, any spec series, I tell people any spec series, that is going to be a good way to learn, You can’t necessarily afford to get into a pro series like the Mazda pro series now is pretty expensive.

You may get a year or two of club racing under your belt with a something like a Miata, get some results. [00:57:00] And if you feel that you are doing reasonably well, you don’t have to set the world on fire. Try and buy some races. Out of track, you know, with some teams, there’s some great teams out there. I know Shea Holbrook runs a team.

I think she’s got five or six cars and people rent cars from her. You can rent the cars in certain series or a reasonable amount of money. Give it a shot. Try at that pro level. And it lets you know if this is the way to go. And of course, if you can try and get sponsorship, there’s guys that are really good about raising money.

I never did that. And I got lucky, if you want to call it that, or, and when I got an opportunity, I didn’t make a mistake. And I ended up at this age now with this long career. Don’t let anyone say you can’t do it. Stay focused. And when you do get an opportunity in maybe a car that somebody says, yes, you’re a test.

Don’t overdrive the car. You don’t have to set the world on fire. If [00:58:00] I can tell you one thing, I know there were 10 guys in the 80s that were super quick and into the 90s and they would get. Opportunities maybe to drive a GT car or another level up from a known factory operational factory linked operation, and they would overdrive the car and they would crash the car.

And this happened over many years. I know at least 10 guys that have these opportunities. They messed them up. Don’t overdrive. If you get an opportunity, be smart, do the best you can, but don’t overdrive it. And, you know, you’ll probably get there. Enjoy it. Enjoy every time you get on a racetrack. It doesn’t matter where the, what kind of racing you do, if you love it, you’ll do it anyway.

And you’ll spend the money you can on it and you’ll do club racing forever. And that’s great. Or what’s across whatever, and that’s fine. I wanted to try and do it. I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to see if I was any good. And I tried to get into a pro series lowest possible cheapest level. I could, I would advise to do the [00:59:00] same thing and work on your fitness.

work on understanding setup. I still have a beaten up moth eaten book called how to make your car handle by Fred Poon. If somebody gave me an old secondhand copy of that, and I digested that because I made myself understand car setup, whether it’s aero, whether it’s mechanical, on the cars. And learn to drive it.

And if you work on it yourself, you know, you can make a great difference to a car in lap times by understanding setups, just really work at your craft, really work at your craft, just keep a good attitude and learn from anyone that you see out there who might be better than you. And there’s plenty of friendly guys.

Anyone is welcome to come and talk to me. You know, I’m pretty much an open book. I always have been. And so if I know anything or see anything, just come by. And there’s plenty of great guys out there that would do the same thing.

Crew Chief Eric: Sage advice from one of the last great grassroots drivers. I’m going to leave it there as we move on to our final segment here.

A lot of [01:00:00] folks also don’t know that you give back to the community at large through something known as the Traffic Safety Education Foundation. We want to give you an opportunity to explain what that is to our listeners and what it’s all about and where it’s going.

Andy Pilgrim: It’s simply put in the, in the… Late eighties started the business and the bit 89 and the business took off like a single engine Cessna with a misfire dragon and alpha.

And for the first two years, it was hand to mouth, very difficult. I was literally living off the racing and not taking anything out of the business, trying to grow the business. After a couple of years, it finally cleared the trees at the end of the runway. And it wasn’t making loads of money, but at least it was paying for itself after two years, probably five years in six years.

And it was actually, we had some contracts. We had some people on billing and it was making a little profit, but it was at least stable, never a big business. Sometimes we’d have about 50, 75 people on billing. You know, you’d make a little bit of money at the end of the year. So at that point, like 1995, I lived in Fort Lauderdale area.

I actually [01:01:00] saw four kids in the car driving very, very quickly, no signal, flew off a freeway, went down to a traffic light and just kind of blew a red light on a right turn, didn’t even come to a full stop. And I just happened to be watching this thing and I thought, man, maybe traffic safety is something.

I was looking for a give back project. My mother and my godmother were very charity minded. You know, as a young kid, my mom would, we lived in a smaller town, my mom would… Go and do laundry for older people. We knew that we’re in the house. I get dragged along 8, 9, 10, 11 years old one day a weekend. I could play soccer with my friends and then the other day I didn’t like it at the time, but it stuck.

My godmother was the same way. Very charity minded business was going. Okay enough and racing was going well. It’s time to give back. So I went to the local high school and lo and behold, unbelievably. The lady at the front said, well, we, anyone to do with traffic safety, this gentleman in the auto shop down Sorrentino and I walked in the auto shop and he said, hi.

And he said, oh my God, you’re Andy Pilgrim. Unbelievable. Mid [01:02:00] 90s. The guy was a Sebring Daytona Endurance. Says, what are you doing in my shop? He gave me the opportunity to talk to his students and other teachers at the school, big school, 3, 500 students. It was literally half a mile from my house. And that’s where it started.

Traffic safety, understanding. I talked about distracted driving. I have notes from the mid nineties, actually with the term distracted driving on it. Started with talking to the high schools. Then I started talking to driver education teachers. By sort of 2010, 11, I was talking at conferences, I made a video actually with Dale Jr.

I asked Dale Jr. to help me and we made this little video was actually aimed at parents. And it was kind of early for that distracted driving early for that to 2005. And it didn’t particularly take off very well. But lo and behold at a conference, two or three of the teachers there said we use your video in our classrooms.

Thank you. And I was like, you do said, Oh yeah, it’s [01:03:00] great. That three, two, one go and focusing and grabbing the keys and all that stuff and getting your mind on driving. Oh yeah, we use it. It’s great. It’s great. I was like, Oh, cool. About 2011, 12, I made a proper video for driver education teachers. Cause I said, look, you’ve got curriculums this thick, you get six or eight hours to teach in the classroom.

So what do you do? Well, we basically, it takes about an hour to be quite honest, to teach them how to pass the test. And then we try to add things that are going to help them survive out there. I said, so if I make a video with survival stuff in it, you can add it to your classroom. You can do it. Yes.

That’s where the driving zone 2 came from. Cause the first one in 2005 was driving zone. Driving zone 2 came from that 35, 000 of those videos were requested DVDs. Requested by driver education teachers and just believe it or not, driver education teachers, 80 percent of them still want a DVD because when you’re in the classroom, the firewalls at the schools, you can’t [01:04:00] stream, even though everything on my website is streamable, they want DVD because they can’t stream it live.

It’s very difficult, the connections and everything else. So that sort of started, I’ve made five full length videos to do with traffic safety and five PSAs. They’re all on this website, I can tell you it’s www. tsef. org. Everything’s free, even shipping and handling the DVDs. It’s a, just a give back project and it’s just, I get so much wonderful feedback.

It’s great. I’ve got stuff for parents. I’ve even got stuff for parents of newborns because people with younger children, they don’t realize once you turn that child’s safety seat around a face front, that’s when your child starts picking up your driving habits and behaviors. And if you just start thinking about this when they’re 14 or 15 before they get a permit, you’re about 12 years, 13 years too late.

Everything they’ve seen you do is now cement in their head. And they are going to do the same thing. And it’s not enough to say, now, don’t drive distracted. Now don’t take some drivers. Like I’ve been watching you do it for the last 13 years. Uh, so hands free [01:05:00] phone use. Absolute. No, no. Manufacturers will tell you hands free is better safer.

No, it’s not. Absolutely not. The mind concentrating on a phone call hands free or not. It’s a major, major distraction. And so talk at conferences, I’ve spoken at Quantico, spoken at Air Force bases, Army bases, groups of younger people that want the message. And it’s, you know, machinist union, annual safety conference, 750 union safety officer from all airlines were there and of course, schools.

And to parent groups, things like that. It’s great fun.

Crew Chief Eric: And most recently, I believe you were featured on a Motor Week special as well.

Andy Pilgrim: Yes, that’s true actually. Motor Week TV came to the M S P and, uh, shot it there. And, uh, very grateful to them. And it just, it aired actually a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, we got some great feedback from that.

Lots of video requests from people and everything Streamable on the. For regular folks and students, they go onto the website and they stream things, but driver ed teachers still request DVDs. So it’s [01:06:00] like, okay, no problem. We’ll make another 10, 000 then.

Crew Chief Eric: So now we’re going to play. Where are they now? So where is Andy now?

Let’s talk about your involvement with SRO in GT3 and GT4 racing, what kind of cars you’re driving, your international campaigns, anything else that’s going on right now that people would be able to follow you on the racetrack still today.

Andy Pilgrim: Just outside of the racing environment, I’m working with CNET Cars now.

Automobile sadly went kind of out of print a couple of years ago. I’m still very good friends with Matt Morrison, who’s the editor of Motor Trend. I told the Mac that, you know, I’ve got this opportunity at CNET Cars as it is now, it used to be CNET Roadshow. And we are still testing cars at the motor sports park on track with a hot lap.

And that’s a lot of fun. So I enjoy doing that. As far as the racing goes, I got a call from Anthony’s dad 11 months ago and saying that, you know, Anthony’s interested in learning to drive on track. Lo and behold, that ended up with Anthony and I having a, you know, we’ve got used GT4 [01:07:00] MRs, good cars, not the new ones.

And so he’s been doing some different type of racing, like SCCA slash I international GT, and I’ve been doing those races with him in a separate car. Again, pulling him around the racetrack. And now, you know, now he’s chasing me sometimes at some of the tracks where he, where he knows. And so this whole year we’ll be helping him in GT four.

And now we just did our first SRO race. We hope to do another two of the SRO races before the end of the year in GT four. Uh, we may do GT for America at Nashville to give him a taste of the street course. So that’ll be fun for both of us to do that. Also the ski auto sport guys, which I’ve been running their first generation Ferrari GT3.

For the last couple of years, they are doing some SRO GT America races too. They’re again, limited schedule. They’ll do two or three SRO races. Johnny O’Connell’s also running with them, you know, which is fun. Johnny’s doing some stuff with them. So they’re basically giving old age pensioner race car drivers like us a chance to get out in the racetrack again.

So we’ll [01:08:00] do some SRO races. I think we do VIR in the Ferrari, Galecourt Lake in the Ferrari. That’s about it. I think with SRO this year with the Ferrari and we’ll do Sebring with the GT4 car and we’ll do Nashville and we’ve got quite a few other races. The whole point of this year is to give Anthony a look at a lot of different racetracks in the US as many as we can.

So we’re doing different series to get him to see the tracks. So it’s essentially a really busy year this year.

Crew Chief Eric: So I think I know the answer to this next question, which is racing is still in your future until you can’t anymore, right?

Andy Pilgrim: Yeah. And again, like I said to Tony, Anthony’s dad, I said, look, I can pull Anthony around.

And I saw he has talent, even the very first time he went on track. You know, he’s not chasing me around at that point, but I could see that he has some natural car skills and he’s very smart and he sees the way around the track. Not always perfect yet, of course, you know, I can help him. But I said to Tony, I said, [01:09:00] look, Tony, I love to race bits and pieces where I can now, and it’s fun, but this is serious.

But when Anthony gets to that point. That he’s running well enough, I will try to point him in the right direction. Then I can, you know, I can just look from the side and cheer him on and that’ll be perfectly fine. I, this is such a great cause I’ve really never been in this position to, to sort of coach someone like this.

And I don’t think many drivers do get in this position where they still give you a car to race as well. And so I feel very grateful to that. And it’s a. Pleasure to see this lad grow into this and work with him. Plus he’s a really, he’s a nice kid to be around as well.

Crew Chief Eric: We’ll be looking out for him and we’ll be rooting for him as well.

And we’ll probably be cross crossing paths at many SRO events to come in the future. So I’m looking forward to it. Yeah.

Andy Pilgrim: I look forward to seeing you, mate. Absolutely.

Crew Chief Eric: So Andy, as we wrap up any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you’d like to mention before we close out.

Andy Pilgrim: No, I just want to thank you so much for your time.

Honestly, it’s been an absolute pleasure going down sort of memory lanes.

Crew Chief Eric: Andy Pilgrim, [01:10:00] racer, educator, journalist. Andy is currently based in Bowling Green, Kentucky, along with his traffic safety education foundation. He continues his work in traffic safety, professional racing in series like SRO motorsports and consults to the national Corvette museum and NCM motorsports park.

He also writes vehicle test articles and creates video content for CNET cars. If you want to catch up with him, be sure to check out www. andypilgrim. com for all the details or follow him on social at Andy Pilgrim on Facebook and YouTube or at Andy Pilgrim the number eight. So that’s Andy Pilgrim eight on Instagram and Twitter.

And remember. Kids emulate us, so be sure to check out his Traffic Safety Education Foundation and learn how you can create the next generation of better drivers at www. tsef. org. And I have to say, Andy, I cannot thank you enough for coming on Brake Fix. What an incredible resume, what an incredible story, [01:11:00] and what an incredible all around great guy.

So thank you. Thank you very much.

Andy Pilgrim: Thank you. Thanks, mate. Thank you very much.

Crew Chief Eric: The following episode is brought to you by SRO Motorsports America and their partners at AWS, CrowdStrike, Fanatec, Pirelli, and the Skip Barber Racing School. Be sure to follow all the racing action by visiting www. sro motorsports. com Or take a shortcut to GT America dot U S and be sure to follow them on social at GT underscore America on Twitter and Instagram at SRO GT America on Facebook and catch live coverage of the races on their YouTube channel at GT world.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for [01:12:00] future shows, you can call or text us at 202 333 4000. 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

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Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

• 00:00 Introduction to Break/Fix Podcast
• 01:01 Meet Andy Pilgrim: A Legendary Racing Driver
• 01:40 Early Life and Passion for Cars
• 02:43 First Steps into Racing
• 03:40 From Mopeds to Motorcycles
• 05:19 Transition to Car Racing
• 07:55 Racing in the US: The Early Years
• 09:58 Autocross Adventures
• 14:47 Entering Professional Racing
• 19:24 Racing Highlights and Championships
• 27:02 Memorable Moments at Le Mans
• 30:57 Rivalries and Friendships in Racing
• 33:01 Favorite Cars and Tracks
• 34:27 Memorable Race Cars and Personal Favorites
• 36:11 Daily Driver and Car Preferences
• 37:16 Bucket List Tracks and Racing Aspirations
• 38:14 Involvement with National Corvette Museum Motorsports Park
• 42:27 Comparing Corvette Generations
• 44:35 Future of Hybrid and Electric Sports Cars
• 49:23 Driving by Feel vs. Data
• 55:32 Advice for Aspiring Drivers
• 59:59 Traffic Safety Education Foundation
• 01:06:06 Current Racing and Future Plans
• 01:09:47 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Bonus content available as a #PITSTOP mini-sode.

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