BimmerWorld

• So WHY? BMW – what’s all the fuss about?
• Whats the best BMW?, What’s the worst?, Best looking, ugliest?, Best/Worst Engine
• Which BMW is the best value for money? 
• 3 car BMW garage, what would be in it?
• BMWs talked about on this episode: E30 m3, E36 m3, E46 m3, m1, m2, m235i, 135, z8, z4 coupe, e21, pre-war 328/327, 507, 850, 750, M8, and more!
• READ MORE: “The Demise of the ///M-badge“ by HazMatt.
• GTM’s e36 “Build Sheet” for Street/AutoCross/Track

and much, much more!

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Gran Touring Motorsports podcast, break Fix, where we’re always fixing the break into something motorsports related.

Ovarian Motorworks. Were in its native tongue Irish motor in VECA Ag, commonly referred to as BMW as a German multinational corporation, which produces luxury vehicles and motorcycles. Founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, BMW is now one of the most common track cars you’ll see on any given weekend, and that’s right Donovan.

So we’ve hinted many a time on break Fix that we were going to have a B M W episode, but it took us a while to find the right people to have this episode with. And so joining me tonight is reoccurring guest on the Break Fixx podcast, Donovan Laura, c e o of Garage Riot, and B M W Officio Nado, as well as returning guest, James Clay, president of Bimmer World, to unpack the mystery in the world of BMWs for all of our listeners out there.

So gentlemen, [00:01:00] both of you, welcome to Break Fix yet again. Thanks for having me back. Yeah, thanks for having me. And I’ll tell you, it’s no mystery BM BMW is just the most awesome manufacturer out there, so I don’t wanna shortcut the process, but you know, I’ll go, I’ll go right there. They do tout themselves as the ultimate driving machine.

That was the ad campaign for a long time, and I think that’s a great way to lead into this. So why B M W? What is all the fuss about? There always seems to be this allure and this mystique around bmw, isn’t it just another. German taxi cab, like a Mercedes or anything else that’s underrated overseas, so let’s talk about it.

Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve been in Audis for commercial shoots, some of the stunt driving in those cars. I’ve done that. I’ve owned Porsche’s and I still own a Mercedes currently. And my first experience. With a German car was my girlfriend of, of a long time Ago’s Volkswagen. Um, I see. I just wanna point out, it all starts with Volkswagens at some point, right?

Which is pretty much a Porsche. Right? Same thing. [00:02:00] So, you know, immediately with that car it was a Volkswagen Jetta and like, uh, second or third gen of those things, there was definitely something different. And, and that was, that was my first experience with a German car. There was definitely something different about the German cars and, you know, there’s ranges, there’s target markets and you know, clearly the Volkswagen was more economical than a BMW at that point.

I was a, I was a college kid and had some student loans that I spent frivolously and including on cars. Or a car. So I had a little bit of money to spend, you know, I wanted a German car. I clearly knew I wanted a German car because I’d worked on a number of cars at that point, and they were just the easiest to deal with.

They were well laid out, they just made sense, easy to work on. Okay. I wanted a German car and I wanted a performance car, so that kind of meant Porsche or B M W. And as luck would have it, I almost got swept into the dark hole of Porsche ownerships, which would’ve been a terrible experience based on the Porsche I was buying at the time, because I was still a college kid and I did not have money for that.

So let me, let me guess. A 9 [00:03:00] 44. No, no, really? Yeah. No way dumber than that. It was a 1998 roof, nine 11. Ooh. But it was affordable because it was a basket case, so I was gonna buy it and put it to together. That was where the black hole comes from. Ah, you know, now in my, in my later years, I, I recognize that would’ve been a black hole no matter how that car had arrived, just because Porsche ownership is more expensive.

You know, I did end up with a b bmw and kind of the rest is history. But after owning other cars, and, you know, I, I’m primarily a bmw, a guy, but that’s, that’s all I really drive, all I really own. After having experience with and owning a couple of other things. I will say that B M W. Really does hit the perfect balance of German car, German engineering performance, car cost effective, but not so luxury.

And you can infer whatever you want from those comments and as to what other brands they might apply to. But for me, B M W, it just is that perfect mix of all the things. Donovan. Yeah. You know, I think for me, you know, I, I [00:04:00] did kind of grow up as a Porsche guy, you know, as a kid. I, I seemed to always have Porsche cars and toys and models and things, and I remember I was probably, gosh, I don’t know, 10 years old, and, and a neighbor had a, uh, gosh, it was like a root beer colored 9 24.

And I used to go out there and take pictures of it. I thought it was the coolest thing. So I always thought, uh, and I am a Porsche guy still, but I always thought that was gonna be my journey. Went to college in, you know, Edson on Garage Riot had a, a three 18 is, I thought it was really cool. And for me, you know, kind of growing up in the, in the era of, you know, when BMWs were special, far as they were, they weren’t very common.

You know, if, if you knew somebody that had a bmw Oh my God. Right. That was amazing. And, uh, another member of ours, uh, brain Stain, his uncle in-law, I suppose, had I think a three 20 or three series to the point that every time he’d wash it, he’d take the wheels off and bring them inside and clean them individually and take ’em outside.

You know, it was just, it was more special than to have a BMW than, than it is a little bit maybe today. So, you know, kind of grew up with that too. And, you know, when, [00:05:00] when I went to college and Edson had his car, which was pretty, you know, outstanding for a college kid. I mean, it was a fairly new car at the time, you know, we became great friends and I was kind of taken by, you know, bmw.

So I worked one summer, worked two jobs, and, and saved up for my first car. Uh, after my freshman year of college, I ended up buying a, an older BMW at three 20. And for me, you know, that was kind of the, the entry point. Although I have deviated, you know, I have come back and BMW’s always been a part of my life.

I was discouraged, I think in, in previous years of buying certain models that of course I own now that, you know, I paid a premium for it. And I, I told my friends, you know, Shut up and, and let me buy ’em. I would’ve gotten into ’em more. But you know, there is a lifestyle aspect of it. You know, there’s the big events like the vintage and things that happen every year and, you know, the clubs are pretty big and it’s a cool, you know, kind of enthusiast group to be a part of.

And James, I agree with you too, on, on some of those points around Mercedes is. I, I think they’re coming back from it now, but, you know, in the nineties they were kind of the big luxury, you know, big seats kind of thing where BMW was still a little more [00:06:00] performance or oriented for the most part, it seemed, and Porsche is kind of its own thing, right?

I mean, it’s, it’s more sports car where BMW is more, it is sports car, but it’s also utility. You can get the kids in the back, you know, you can go do those things and you can still terrorize the tracks. So for me, you know, it kind of caught me early and, you know, along with Porsche’s, those, those both have always kind of been my passion with all three of us being petrolheads of a certain age.

I too grew up in a similar era of vehicles, as you guys did. And the vision I always had of BMWs to Donovan’s point was. There was almost a stereotype, like you were either a stockbroker and you or middle manager and you owned a bmw or you were the guy wearing the yellow polo shirt with the pink sweater wrapped around your shoulders and tied in a knot off to the tennis court.

Right. It had a certain se quo about it. Right. It was like BMW again, there was this mystique. It’s like, who is this BMW owner? Like you knew who all the G t I guys were, you know who all the Porsche guys were. Cuz they, they had Beatles at a previous life, you know, and there was a certain, I guess, culture that grew up around all of those cars.

I [00:07:00] grew up in a VW Audi family. We’ve had VWs and Audis since the early sixties. So it was a whole different kind of mindset. You know, my definition of sporty versus yours is very different for me. It didn’t happen with BMW until the E 30 M three. Everything else before that, I was like, uh, reverse aerodynamic noses.

They’re, they’re boring, they’re sedans. If you want something sporty, get a g t i, I don’t know why anybody would buy a w. Right. It would, I wouldn’t very hard to convince that BMW was the answer Granted. If you’re looking for rear world drive, it’s the way to go. And compared to a Mercedes, you guys are right.

It’s, it’s a lot more sporty, not nearly as luxurious or as powerful as the AMGs or the brass or some of the other things that were out at the time. Let’s talk about each of yours, kind of collection of BMWs and maybe some that stand out specifically. And let’s start with James. Collection of bmw. So current ownership, sure.

You can talk about the past. We can go back to the future. Well, I will tell you that my life started with my bmw life started with an E 30 M three, and you know, [00:08:00] again, I was a college kid, but at that point that stuff was attainable. I had one with an engine swap because, uh, I bought it from a girl that had blown up the motor, didn’t check the oil, blew up the motor, 70,000 miles in the car, 10,000 on the motor because it had an engine swap.

It was a, it was a smoking deal. I got it for, well, less than 10 grand. And it, you know, interior and exterior was just perfect. So that was my first love in the BMW world. So that, that one’s always special. Almost currently, I just went through E 30 M three ownership again, and it was very different this time.

So my first ownership of E 30 M three was. Let’s take this thing to the racetrack and just, you know, immediately I started ripping weight out of the car and modifying this thing and doing all the, and you know, it was just a rat, well, I say ratted out. It was a track car that I drove on the street and because in college you don’t care and you do dumb stuff like that.

And it was awesome. It was loud and the brakes squealed and everywhere I drove it, it, those things make power in the high RPMs, but it didn’t matter. That’s, that’s where I lived. I was gonna rev that thing out wherever. My most recent E 30 M three ownership was this beautiful hena car, and now I felt like [00:09:00] a custodian of a car.

I wouldn’t dare modify. It was tastefully modified. It has, you know, Evo three rear spoiler, Evo two front, some little Evo parts here and there, but it was. Very stuck. You know, I had to be careful when I drove it and you know, it was, it’s not the B M W that I enjoy today. You know, it, it may have been, but I would never do the things to it that make me enjoy a b BMW a lot of the time that I did back in the day.

So I sold the E 30 and three, but I do have that ridiculous E 36 Pikes Peak car. The business has it. So that’s my influence and I get to drive it. So I guess I can be the custodian of that one. I have an E 36 wagon, which I love. It’s an E 36 touring with a E 39 and five motor E 46 and three. E nine, two and three.

So I, I’m an m Mcar guy and I’m a three series guy, so a three slash four series. I’ve got, well, GT Moore is what we call it. It’s our project car on a, on an F eight X platform. And, and I’m currently waiting for my loaner, G 80, M three. So I love all the M cars, I love all generations of mcar. I like other stuff too.

But [00:10:00] really what makes a BMW for me is something that I can really get in experience, drive, modify, make it mine, and just truly enjoy. While, while I certainly love and appreciate them, I realize that I love and appreciate the classics in other people’s hands. Where I, I don’t have to do the upkeep with less joy of ownership the way I enjoy it to own one.

Before we go onto Donovan, that’s actually a really good point because the one BMW of I’ve owned was a previous track car that had changed hands several times, right? So a countless people have had their hands in the car, and you know, the body had 300,000 miles and the motor had like 3000 miles on it.

You know, one of those type of stories. It was an E 36, and I wanted to know what all the fuss was about because all my friends had E 36 track cars, so I figured I’ll buy one too. You know, I’ve said it more than once on this show. It was like owning a boat for me, not coming from the BMW world. The happiest day for me was the day I bought it, and the second happiest day was the day I got rid of it.

And everything in between was an [00:11:00] absolute nightmare. And so you get underneath that car and I’d pull my hair out and go, what in the hell were they thinking? O on a Volkswagen? It’s like, this is super easy, it’s three bolts. Why is this nine links and 27 pieces? And I’m like, Why is this over-engineered? I don’t understand.

You know, and so it drove me kind of nuts. It had, you know, the typical issues had, you know, valve covers and, uh, vanos and everything else that’s wrong with the E 36 that you’re constantly maintaining. So for me, the maintenance, it made it just this daunting task and it, it worried me every time I took it to the track, I’m like, what’s gonna blow up next?

How much more money do I have to sink into this thing? You know? So I kind of, I backed away from BMWs and I said, ah, you’re gonna have to really sell me hard on my next one. Right. And we’ll talk about that in a little bit, but I want to talk about Donovan’s collection of BMWs before we move on. Yeah, I feel like I kind of need to lead you up to where I am.

So I mentioned the three 20 and then I had a gap. You know, I kind of got into the fast and furious world before Fast and Furious. Uh, I did that for a little while, did some other things, but finally got back into [00:12:00] BMWs after Porsches. But, you know, I got back in with a, with the next five, 4.4, which I loved, and I put 230,000 miles on it and it still drove like a champ.

I think the only problem I had with it was the alternator went out once, which apparently was a liquid cooled $1,600 alternator, apparently Z over-engineered and super expensive. See what I’m talking about? Why do you need a liquid cooled alternator? Easy? Where just, just be aware that Donovan and I are gonna start double teaming the Volkswagen guys.

So,

Right. So yeah, that, and, you know, the, the AC stopped cooling as much, but I ended up getting rid of that thing. It, it was fantastic. And then I had another little bit of a gap. I’d kind of been looking at the E 30 M three s and you know, like I mentioned a minute ago, I kept having people that had never owned one telling me why I shouldn’t buy ’em.

Right? Oh, they rust in the back and this, that, and the other. So it kind of kept me away for a little while. So I finally did buy one. It was fantastic, right? That car had been sent back to Germany and had the dog leg and all the EVO bits and everything else on it, which I didn’t quite appreciate at the time.

And, and to give you an idea, I paid [00:13:00] 17 for it. I kept it for about two years and sold it for 26. That was the year before they went to 40 and 45 and all those. And I didn’t realize, you know, the, the gold that was in the parts, but, so what did I do is I bought another one once they were. 45 50. So I have that one now.

I have E 30 M three, I have two E 28 M five s. I just sold Eric. You know the story about my E 36 M three. Sold it to a 17 year old kid. It was his dream car, but to me it just felt like this car belonged with him. Two weeks later, he totaled it. I just bought an F 80 M three at the beginning of the year. I haven’t told you this, Eric, but I found, uh, a 2002 turbo and it’s, oh, it’s on its way to the states right now, so it’s not a done deal, but hopefully in a month we’ll be talking about, uh, talking about that.

But, uh, so fingers crossed. But yeah, you know, the, the, the modifying portion of, you know, the, I I wouldn’t dare modify like the E 30 or the M five s, right? I mean, finding parts alone for the e the, the M five is, is near impossible. I, I found a dash in the Ukraine or something, you know, to fix. One of them had a [00:14:00] crack dash, that kinda thing.

It was 1500 bucks, you know, those kinda things. I did put suspension on the, the E 30 M three, but the F 80 is a different story. I mean, that car is fast already. It’s, it’s competition car, but, you know, flashing it and doing some other things. So I’m on the climb with that car where the other ones, you know, like you said, James, I want to keep the stock as possible.

I mean, you know, some cosmetics, maybe some suspension work, but I, I enjoy that car a lot and we go ripping through the mountains with Tesla owners, which. Don’t get me wrong, they’re still faster, but it’s nice to be able to keep up with ’em and not being a 30 year old BMW that on the radio saying, Hey guys, hang on while I catch up to you.

We’ve talked a little bit about, you know, your guys’ history, the collections and things like that, and experiences, and I guess that leads me to kind of some opinion questions, right? So I’m gonna, I’m gonna throw these out there. Maybe I’ll, I’ll start with Donovan on this one. What do you guys think? Just looking back over the history is the best bmw?

You know, I’m probably a little biased. I mean, I, I, I would immediately go to the E 30 M three. You know, you go, I mean, I think that still isn’t that the most winning touring car of all [00:15:00] time or something. I mean, it’s, it’s, let’s unpack the E 30 M three. You guys have both mentioned it several times here, so I’m not, I don’t take issue with it because I think that car is awesome and I am a huge fan of DTM, as you know, Donovan.

But it felt like it was BMW’s attempt to Xerox copy the UR cuatro 10 years too late. I mean, if you look at it, it’s, it’s just like the UR cuatro. We got the jackknife flares, which were kind of going outta style in the late eighties anyway, right? The 9 44 had already done it. The RX seven had already done it.

They all copied the Audi from the early eighties, and it’s kind of like similar shape, similar style, similar idea, kind of homologated rally car type of look and feel to it. But at the end of the day, Just like the Audi, it’s based on a, you know, boring sedan or boring two-door. And in the e thirties case, it’s an E 30.

So what really makes it so special outside of the body work? Well, I mean, you could say by today’s standards, right? It’s the, I’m gonna say, you know, I hate this word, but you know, to most people it’s the unicorn, right? Oh my God, I can’t believe, you know, it’s just [00:16:00] got this mystique around it that, I mean, they made a lot of ’em, right?

Yeah. So it’s not like they made 300, and I think a lot of ’em were abused and thrown away over the years. So now to see one is, is something special. But, you know, the, the handling on ’em, and I can’t, you know, James can probably speak better to this. I didn’t, I’ve never tracked mine and I don’t intend to.

But you know, my understanding is, is they track really well. I know people that have track cars and, and they’re supposed to do really well at that. But, you know, I don’t know. I mean, in, in all honesty, and I, I shouldn’t really say this of that era, right? I think the. The one 90 E 2.5, uh, Mercedes had a lot to offer in that era too, but again, right.

The big flared body work and, and all this kinda things, obviously, you know, for a reason. But, you know, I don’t know. I, I just think it’s special. Right. You know, it’s, to me, I don’t see a lot of manufacturers even current day stepping out and really making a significant leap from the passenger car version of one car to this kind of flared out part.

I mean, yeah, you can say the challenging things like that, but you know what I mean. Right. These really kind of special almost, you know, the homologated version, I mean, is really what it was. Yeah. To that point, the E 36 stock is better than [00:17:00] any E 30 M three. Out the gate. Right. I mean, we know that as it’s evolution right there.

I, I wonder if the E 36 isn’t held in higher regard. I mean, it definitely is in the track world. You see more of them. They’re like Miatas, they’re freaking everywhere. Right. But it’s also a massively produced mcar as well. Right? It was the first one to be like, totally doesn’t have independent throttle bodies, all this fun stuff.

Cause it was built, you know, basically on an assembly line and cranked out as fast as they could get ’em out there. So going to James, why is the E 30 M three so special versus some of the other cars that are out there? Well, you know, I think it’s, I think it’s the, the opposite of that E 36 that you’re talking about.

To me, maybe at the time in the, in the late eighties, early nineties, the E 30 M three was special and that were BMW people. They thought that thing was pretty special. They were higher production, right? That’s way they made 10,000. Something like a little over that. Over the, over all the production running of years.

They weren’t necessarily flying off the shelf either because they were, you know, they were expensive. They were expensive cars. I think that. Our appreciation for the E 30 M three has gone up over the years [00:18:00] and I think the mystique has gone up and it’s special because it’s so special. It’s special because it’s not an E 30.

So that was the first car that I tracked and it, you’re right, it Donovan, it just is amazing. It’s so light and it’s light and nimble like a, like an E 33 18 is, but it’s powerful. Like a, like a E 33 25. And so I can remember arguing, and this sounds like a ridiculous argument if I say it today. I remember arguing with, with one of my friends early on in my track career who had an E 33 25 and we were arguing about which one was better.

You know, the E 30 M three or the 3 25. They were similar lap times. They do it in a little bit different ways, or at least in the trend levels that we were looking at racing them. In retrospect in, you know, in this day and age where the E 30 M three is highly valued. I think what makes them, you know, so special is just how unique they are.

It was the first true mcar. I think they were, you know, there were m variants of cars up until that point, but there was never one that they just said, this is an m. But what about the, what about the M one? Isn’t that the original M [00:19:00] car from 1978? He swat me away. He swatted me away. But you know of attainable means, right?

We so we talk about production numbers. Yes, it was, it’s things still looks like a spaceship kind of. And you know, back in the late seventies, that’s not attainable. That’s not something anybody ever show saw on a dealer showroom floor E 30 and three is like what starts to be cool about BMWs to me is they’re attainable.

And that car was in production numbers that became attainable, but it had so much different D n A than the non M cars of the time. You know? So your original question, or you questioned a bit a bit ago to Donovan is what’s the best b m bmw ever? And, and again, you’ve gotta decide how you’re asking that question or what type of response because to me, the best BMW car ever.

It’s an E 36 something, not because the original car was awesome or because the M three is super special or whatever. It’s just like they’re the universal. They can do anything. They were iconic in the nineties. To me. You can throw [00:20:00] any motor in them and make ’em ridiculously fast and fun and, and they’re just so out there.

They’re, they were made in such high numbers. That’s why they’re like Miatas at the track. There’s just, there’s so many made and sure they’re, you can run an M three, which isn’t all that special. It’s not, it’s not special compared to a 3 28. It’s, you know, super similar, use the same transmission, use the same diff, all, you know, all these things use the same body work except for bumpers.

So all these things that make those things so available and so great to modify and such a great foundation for anything you would do on the track. That’s the absolute opposite of what the E 30 M three is with so many specialized parts that just make that thing a special level of cool that we just, honestly, I don’t think we’ve gotten since in the BMW world.

Well, and then you kinda have the crossover, right? You’ve got the E 30 M three with E 36 drive line in it, which, you know, To me, that’s, that’s heresy, right? You should, you should do that to one of yours. No, no. You know, some people think that’s the perfect combination between the two. Two, so I, I don’t know.

I, I, [00:21:00] we talked about it. I don’t think I would bastardize the car to do that, but, uh, it wouldn’t suffer from a little more horsepower power for sure. That’s, that’s true. And, and for the money you would spend on that. And for the, the mods that James is talking about, the E 36, I mean, I’ve driven a lot of BMWs.

Like I said, I’ve only owned one, but I’ve driven a lot and I’ve coached a lot. And I do have my likes and my dislikes, but my vote goes to the E 46 M three because I feel like that’s when they finally figured it out. It was too late though, because they were already moving on. And we’ll talk about the Bengal BMWs and things like that in a, in a minute.

I feel like that’s the last of the true BMWs, to your point, like true drivers cars where you jump in, they’re still very raw, very primitive. No, no real nannies to speak of. You get in and you have fun. Even in stock trim, they’re absolutely amazing to be behind the wheel of. So I think my vote kind of goes to the end of the line of that, that small, you know, let’s say 20 year span there of mcar has gotta be to the E 46 where they, they finally got it right.

But let’s flip this on its head and [00:22:00] go back to James and what’s the worst b w. In your opinion? Oh man. There are certainly some models I don’t like. There’s a singular E 21 that holds a special place in my heart for being the absolute single worst car I’ve ever laid my hands on. But I think in general, in broad terms, the worst b w is that like five, eight years ago, uh, we never got ’em in the us thank goodness, that five door version of the two series active tour or whatever, that, whatever that thing was in Germany that looks like it’s like a bmw, uh, minivan, but in the absolute worst form you’ve ever seen in your life.

Yeah, they tried to copy the Audi A two, which didn’t make it here either, thankfully. Ugh, terrible. But, you know, that’s, that may be obscure. Uh, you know, I really don’t like the E 21. One of our guys, uh, at work is a die hard E 21 guy and. I know that there’s some variants that are cool, but suspension design, power output started to get heavy.

Started to [00:23:00] do that early eighties, late seventies kind of weirdness was the way lights are integrated and bumpers have to have these, you know, rubbery rib things on ’em for the federal stuff. It started to get funky for me Then. They also had that reverse aerodynamic nose, I call it, where the grill slants into the wind rather than away from it.

But hey, you know, whatever. Styling is what it is. So I gotta stand up for the E 20 ones a little bit. I just sold one, I sold a sport package car. It was, what, 90,000 miles, you know, I expected that car to be worth more and I kept holding out and finally I was like, I gotta get rid of this thing. But, and all of the things that you guys just railed on with the exception of you, is what I liked about it, right?

The, the front end. To me, BMWs were BMWs when the, when the front end was a little square maybe kicked back. You think about like the six series, right? That, to me was, was great, but didn’t care for the rear end of that car much. But, you know, to me, the, the E 21, I always thought of the race car, which I thought was really fantastic.

You know, I don’t know. I mean, I’m not gonna talk performance wise, but I think just visually, I think the Bengal Error five series were not great. The new Mcar, [00:24:00] I’m still waiting for ’em to grow on me, but I, I, I just can’t. I think it’s easily fixable, right? You paint the middle support bar and divide the kidneys, and maybe that helps out a little bit.

But, you know, I don’t know. I mean, you know, you look back at, at some of the Bavaria and things and think, well, but then you see one that’s been, you know, lowered slightly and has nice wheels on it. Like, okay, well maybe I can, I can deal with that one a little bit, but I just have to stick to the designs.

Or some of these Gran Touring ones that we did get, like the, some of the five series are a little weird, but for me it’s really about the styling on, on the ones I mentioned before, I think are, I could, I could do without, for sure. I think it’s funny you guys bring that up and I’ve heard nothing but horror stories about the eight series, especially the eight fifties s We asked this question of other people before and they’re like, oh, the eight 50 that v12, that’s, that’s horrendous.

That’s like the worst BMW ever. Granted, you know, often you keep all the Hair Cuttery jokes to yourself, much like the Miata guys do being a hairdresser’s car and all this kind of thing. But it was a step out of the normal with the eight 50 and the eight 40 for sure. To your point, maybe not the worst, but it’s [00:25:00] probably up there in the top three of probably in terms of maintenance and parts obscurity and things like that.

Cause it shares nothing really with anything else. So I think that’s probably pretty high up there as well. Well, the eight 50 can’t be the worst car because that thing actually looks pretty cool. The worst version of that is a seven 50. When you get more electrical goodies that can fail, but you’ve still gotta maintain that same lump of a motor, which you’re right, is an absolute nightmare.

What’s the worst car? Any seven series with a hundred thousand miles on it. Blanket statement, except for the one on the transporter, which is awesome no matter what. Because it had a stick shift, but you know, we’ll leave it there. You know, you kind of hit on something in terms of styling, right? And there’s a lot to be said about BMW styling and it goes way back, right?

We’re talking all the way back pre-World War II to the early twenties, you know, with the kidney grill is a signature thing of b w. Love it or hate it. It’s been around forever. You kind of look it back at all the styling, and I often wonder if B M W was like, [00:26:00] Hey, you know what? In modern terms, let’s just send it.

Let’s just see if this style sticks and if somebody likes it. But I kind of feel like that’s been the motto for a long time, because even in recent times, I, as one of our members puts it, there seems to be a seat for every ass when it comes to bmw. They will tool a design for like three people and they’re like, oh, we’ll call it the five series GT plus Hatchback thing.

And you’re like, D how many of those did you guys make? Like why? Who cares? You know what I mean? And so I wonder if they’re pushing the envelope. They’re just crazy. I, I mean, I don’t know. It kind of brings up the question of best looking versus worst looking BMWs, kind of in your guys’ opinion. Let’s go with Donovan.

Oh man, I go for best. I, I gotta go straight to the race cars. I know that that was kind of outta the bounds of the question, but you know, you think of the, the 3.0 cars, the three point fives, the CSLs back in the seventies I think are just gorgeous. Um, those are some of my favorites. And, and those, to me, really even, you know, when I was a kid kinda looking around, you’d see those and you’re like, wow, what is that?

You know, those are really cool. And I always wanted a, a 3.0 when I got older. I, I’m [00:27:00] over that now. I don’t want one now, but, uh, I think they’re pretty cool. Those are definitely great looking cars. But you know, like I said, to me, that era of that kind of, Square nose or the slanted end nose a little bit. To me, that’s when, for me anyway, that’s when BMWs were BMWs when we started getting into some of the plastic, you know, covered surround headlights and things.

It still kind of kept some of that styling. But then, you know, we get into bangle again. But, you know, the older cars, the original cars and stuff, I think are cool in their own right. I actually know a 3 28 in the storage container somewhere. He’s, I’m trying to get it from, he won. I think he’s gonna die with it.

But you know what, what year? 3 28 is that? I don’t know. But he, he, the story goes, he lived in The Bahamas or something and there was a guy on the corner that was always working on cars and he traded him something for it. I forget what it was, and then shipped it here. It’s up, it’s up North Georgia somewhere and disassembled it and then put it in one of those, not the full length storage containers, but the half ones and packed it in there.

And it’s been sitting there forever. And the guy and his son restored cars, but they haven’t gotten to this one. Offered him, you know, are you gonna sell? Are you gonna sell it? And they never would. But they had that 5 0 7 that I [00:28:00] did, that we did the video of, so they come across ’em, but. Um, in my understanding and I, I don’t know the older BMWs that well, but my understanding is the 3 27 is way more desirable.

The three 20 is not as much, but, but you know, those were cool. Right? And I think it’s that identifying factor, right? The kidneys, you can’t really mistake, you know that that’s a bmw I’ve heard several times. I think Chris Harrison talked about it, you know that the big grills, the big kidneys thing is for the, the Chinese market that that’s an appeal there.

So maybe they’re just trying to expand a little bit. But I was heading to Florida recently and, and stopped and, and this lady came in and she had a brand new four series convertible. I asked her, you know, what do you think about it? She’s like, oh, it’s great. I said, what do you think about the kitty? And I didn’t say, I think they’re godawful, right?

What do you think? But I said, Hey, you know, what do you think about the styling? And she said, oh, I think it’s great. And all my friends love it. And like, okay, well, you know, it, it’s, it’s resonating with some people. So I, I think, like you said, you know, some people just, they flock to it and they love it. And then I think others are still on the fence about it.

But, so the ugliest bmw, I still have to go back to, well, I’ll just pick, I’ll just pick the current, current number. [00:29:00] The one that looks like something off babble on five. Yeah. So, we’ll, we’ll leave it there. Science fiction BMWs up next. James, what do you think best and worst in terms of styling? You know, I don’t know what our Bengal count is up.

You know, I, we’ve said his name 8, 9, 10 times now. It’s a, it’s a shit, it’s a drinking game. Now, I’ll tell you right, I’m an early adopter on this stuff. I’m open-minded. I’m not so absolute on how I feel because I do think there is a period of time that anything new. Is not the right thing, especially when you emotionally connect to a car or a car mark that has defined points that make it that kind of car.

And so I think that BMW has generally had these traditional styling elements. I mean, it’s not a Kia that picks up whoever’s styling elements that they saw that week and incorporated into their car. It, it has very consistent styling through the years. So I, I pick up on the stuff. I like it earlier than most.

Would. I love the new M cars. I say the new M cars, the new M three and four. I think that looks so [00:30:00] mean and aggressive. Of course, I think they could have done themselves a favor. And I think when it was introduced with a Chrome surround, that’s terrible because it highlights the thing I don’t like about that, but I love seeing it on the road cars and probably because I see how it translates into the, the race cars, you know?

And now that the GT four is out and visible, we see that big opening and how they’re using that to pull air through. And those, you know, those scoops on the hood that come down and you can see they’ve just dropped those further and now they get this extraction from that. And I, I just, I think that’s super cool.

So, you know, and I liked some of the Bengal stuff earlier than I should have, or earlier than a lot of people did. I guess the, you know, the first Bengal I remember was the, was the seven series, maybe that was the one that the trunk came on, but, and maybe that one wasn’t awesome, but at the time I was, I was pretty ambivalent or slightly positive on the five.

But the Z four I loved. Anyway, that’s a long roundabout to, to say that I do like the new styling, but I queued in on that 3 28 because the 3 28. The pre-war War II car, I think is, is my absolute favorite bmw, and [00:31:00] that’s, I’ve never driven one. I’ve gotten to be around a couple. I think that that’s just elegant and beautiful and amazing and really doesn’t resonate with anything that I do with BMWs or any BMWs that I have.

But I think it’s beautiful. I’m with you there. You know, especially talking about like the Bengal cars, like the M six, right? It looks like a angry badger and I’ve gotten used to it and to Donovan’s point with the right color and the right wheel package, and you look at it, you know, half, three sheets to the wind with one eye open.

It looks pretty good sometimes, but then you have. Other cars not so much. Right, and And I’m with you on the Z four, right? I like the Z four, especially the end poop when they first came out. I think that’s a really cool car. Way better looking than the Z three, the clown shoe. I know people are gonna hate me for it.

The clown shoe is a great car handling wise. I’ve driven a bunch. They’re cool, they’re fun, they twitchy, they do everything right. It’s just not what you bring home to mama at the end of the day. But in terms of like best looking BMWs, I think some of those big [00:32:00] sedans, like the late nineties, like the The Transporter seven series, even the eight series that are more elegant, that are a little bit more subdued, that are almost more Mercedes like to me kind of stand out because I like that sleeper look and style.

I’m also a big fan of BMW station wagons. I think the five series precursor to the E 39 station wagon, I can’t remember all the E numbers, but you guys know what I’m talking about. That pretty. Yes, the 34 station wagon or the state, or whatever you wanna call it, I think that’s a cool looking ride, especially when they’re done up some basket weed, BBBS wheels and lowered and all that.

But on the ugly side, I mean, that ugly tree is long when it comes to BMWs, but the one, there’s one that sticks out, right? And you can have fun with some of the old cars like the ISTA and say it’s super cute and it’s quirky because it’s of the era of the Fiat 500 and the Beetle. But I think there’s one car that takes the cake and it’s pretty modern, and there’s a close second, right along with it [00:33:00] is the I three.

There is no angle that you can look at an I three and say that it’s good looking because it looks like a three series that went through a trash compactor, right? I just don’t understand it. But the other one is the I eight, and I have a hard time with that one too, because it’s so futuristic. It almost looks cartoonish.

But if you take a page. From the BMW kind of prototype playbook, especially stuff coming out of Ital Design by Juro. If you look at the Nasca and the Nasca C2 and some of the other things that he built, you’re like, I understand where the I eight came from. It’s an evolution of those designs, so I appreciate it on both ends.

But the I three just blah, that takes the cake in terms of terrible at the end of the day. I think there’s two though that we didn’t mention that are on the good side, obviously the, uh, the Z eight. Yeah. Oh, that’s a gorgeous car. And I’m gonna go way back to the Dixie, right? Remember their first kind of entry into I was Amelia Island a couple [00:34:00] years ago, and there was one there.

It was invited to be, it was a hundred year of an, uh, anniversary of, of bmw. And I, I’d been looking for one semi seriously, right? Not to pay a lot of money for one. And there was one there and I asked the guy about it, and uh, I said, Hey, I’m looking for one. And his response was, why? I expected, you know, having it there, he’d have been like, oh yeah, they’re great cars.

He was like, why? I said, I, I don’t know. I just thought they were kind of cool, you know, it’d be kinda cool. He’s like, nah, you, you don’t want these or not worth that. I thought those were cool. You’re right. So that’s actually a great segue into another question. So Donovan, since you’re always in the market and buying and selling cars and looking at the market like we talked about on the last drive-through episode and whatnot, what’s the best B M W when you think about it from value for money?

Like somebody wants to jump in and say, Hey, maybe it’s not the super rare 3 27, it’s not a Z eight. You know it, but it’s also not an E 30. Right? What’s that value for money car where it’s like you’re really getting the most out of it, not spending a ton and might be worth something in the future. Yeah, that might be better question to ask James.

I [00:35:00] mean, to me, you know, I try to buy BMWs that I think are, you know, I’m prospecting, right? That I think are gonna increase or be worth more in five years, 10 years, you know, 20 years kind of thing. So, you know, when it comes to, and I’m, I’m making up something here, but say, you know, a an E 33 25, that might be a great value.

I don’t know. I’m not really in, in the market of those, but you know, to me, I try to find, I think there’s enough. BMWs on the, the more attainable side that, you know, I think are generally, you can say are, are gonna be a good value, right? In E 36 M three, we talked about those. They’re steadily growing a little bit.

I doubled the mine when I, when I sold it, um, over a few years. But, um, and of course, you know, the E 30 itself, right? Those, uh, the, the fast and furious crowd graduated from those cars to BMWs and everybody now is after the e thirties and especially the E 30 wagons and stuff. I mean they’re, you know, in the twenties, which is kind of crazy to me.

But, you know, I think those are, those are kind of good to get into the market with if you can find one that hasn’t been abused. But I don’t know, I’d defer to James on that. He probably knows a more than I do. I don’t even think about that. So that’s, [00:36:00] so this is where I’m terrible. The only BMW I’ve ever sold and made money on was that E 30 M three that I bought recently.

And that’s just because I dumb lucked into it. I actually lost money if I consider opportunity cost. Because if I’d sold it a year later, I would’ve doubled my money. I’m an idiot when it comes to buying cars thinking that I know something about resale value. I know nothing about prospecting for that. I do think in general, cars are seeing more of a bubble in the, in the BMW world, the E 30 M three was the first one to see that thing really start to blow up super fast, and then some others followed.

I don’t know that E 36 M three will ever enjoy that, cuz I just don’t think that they were as special. If I could have stacked some 50,000 mile E 46 M three five years ago, I certainly would’ve done that. That would’ve been a good buy. I’ll tell you, I love the V8 cars, the S 62, S 65 cars. I feel like those.

Probably have good value, but we’re kind of in that place where people are starting to try to predict the bubble and get ahead of it. And so I don’t know that the costs are as reasonable. And then, you know, I, I think ultimately those [00:37:00] cars are gonna be maybe underappreciated. You know, you say Eric, that you love that E 46, M three, and I, you know, I like that as well.

But I, I love the new stuff. You know, once they got turbos funny, I have a buddy that just bought an F 82 M four, the soulless big, heavy, the worst M three M four BMW’s ever made. Says everybody until they make the next new one. And then everybody’s like, oh, we love that last one. That was awesome. Now this is the worst one ever made.

So, you know, there’s people that are just, don’t like that change. And he was on that side for a while. And what grabbed him on this car is there, it came from a BMW dealership that ordered a bunch of individual cars. And so this thing is in Daytona Violet, one of our favorite E 36 and three colors. So he’s like, I, I don’t know that I love this car, but I, I gotta have a Daytona violet car.

This thing’s amazing. And he’s coming out of an E 36 and three. He’s like, but you know, they suck. They’re big, they’re heavy, they’re soulless, they’re all, you know, all these things. After three weeks, he’s like, alright man, I get ya. It’s violently fast. It has plenty of power. It is bigger, but it feels nimble.

It just, it [00:38:00] does things well in a different way. But it’s a modern way. And when I get back in my E 36, you know, his has an engine in it, big cams, et cetera, so nicely modified, so it has some power. He’s like, it’s still, it just feels like this car does everything and it is connected to me. I do think people underappreciate some of that newer stuff and, but I, I don’t know if that’s enough to save the future value of na cars or not.

I’m still waiting on the E 28 M five s to go and, and any chance I can say that, you know, there one just sold for 70, I think I’m bringing a trailer. To me, that’s amazing. Right? They only made what, 2200 of them and they’re still, people are just still overlooking ’em and it’s crazy. I’m still waiting for it to stay in the sun to, to pop.

I love those cars. I think they’re, you know, and same thing, the E 30 started to go wild and I’m like, man, well what about the ones that they made so few of, and you know, and I like that car more personally. You know, I love a four-door car. Yeah, I’m shocked that they’re not outta sight. So looking at it from a entry level, let’s say Motorsport, enthusiasts opinion, I think there’s three.

[00:39:00] And they’re pretty modern actually, if you’re looking to value for money. Cuz I, I look at cars all the time too, cuz you know, what’s my next project? What’s my next track toy? This kind of thing. Now I, I did make an oath. Pretty pronounced one that I would never own a BMW again. But there are a few that do make my list though.

And the first one is, I’ve already mentioned it, it’s the Z four. Now I’m of the old school mentality that I can em it up just like you can make a golf into a G T I, you know, kind of deal. That’s the old school mentality is I’ll buy all the M parts and make my own m. So you can make a Z four M in some ways or make it better than a Z four M with a Z four.

They’re still going for not a ton of money. It’s a good looking car. If you’re into a two-door coop, which I’m a big fan of, two-door coops can still get it with a manual because. I, you know, I’m, I’m part of the whole save the manual campaign as well, but I think the car that comes after that, which is also underappreciated, is the E 88, the one 30 fives, and the one 20 eights.

Those are well balanced. They’re kind of small, like the E [00:40:00] 36 s work compared to some of the bigger stuff that’s out now. They handle really well. I’ve ridden in those cars, they make plenty of power. Also turbocharged in a lot of cases, so you don’t necessarily need the M, you can M it up or pay the M tax.

The third one, and I’ve had the opportunity to coach in, is the two series, either the M 2 35, which I don’t understand the badging thing, and I won’t get on that soap soapbox or the M two itself. I think both of those cars right now, they are still a little bit more pricey than the other two I mentioned, but as an all around turnkey package.

That two series, and I hear it’s coming back, as a matter of fact, cause it was discontinued. It’s kind of like the best of everything. You want it to be an autocrosser, it can be. You want to be a grocery getter. It can be, you wanna go to the track with it. It can do all of those things and it will surprise the heck out of you.

And like I said, I’ve, I’ve coached in several of them and every time I got out of them, I turn around and look at the car and I’m like, That’s a bmw, huh? Kind of like that’s the way it should be. So they another one where I feel like the E 46 where they kind of got it [00:41:00] right. But it leads me into another question that James, you kind of brought up about the different motors that are out there.

There’s brands out there that are known for their motors, right? And so obviously the classic motor for BMW is the inline six, right? And having inline motors anymore, I mean, that’s reminiscent of the Packard days of like an inline eight, right? As long as the hood could be kind of deal. Or even an old Cadillac or something like that.

So it’s rare to see those inline motors anymore, but some companies are known for their motors. Like I said, Toyota with the four a G where the two JZ outta the super Porsche, obviously for the flat six Volkswagens, the 16 valves, the 20 valves, Audi with the five cylinder turbos and things like that were these bulletproof engines.

But then they also have some real lemons too. Like why the hell did they make that? You know? And and Fiat’s got tons of those. Oh wait, did I say that out loud? So what is on both ends of that spectrum for bmw? What are the motors that are like. God’s given motors and what are the ones to really stay away from you?

Like you said, uh, BMW is an inline six and they are very good at [00:42:00] those things. Uh, you know, I think the M 30 is a pretty solid motor, M 20, M 30. I think the M 50 variants are amazing. I love those things and I, especially when I think about the potential of those things, not necessarily just how they are as delivered from the factory, but what the potential of those motors is.

I love the architecture in them, especially when you slap a turbo on those things get really impressive. And so you don’t have to go to the newer generation stuff necessarily. So I’m gonna say M 52 is a really solid motor in that lineup. It’s the 3 28 motor. Those things are, are super reasonable, easy to get plenty of ’em out there.

Square motor and throw a turbo on it, and they’re amazing. If you want the factory turbo motor, the N 54, without doing much work to it, just external stuff, those things take a ton of power as is. And then do a closed deck deal and throw some forged parts at it and they get way up there. So I, I love those things.

On the other side of that, early four cylinders were awesome. M tens s fourteens, you know, the kind of that era [00:43:00] stuff, but having to look at and deal with and spend money on for so many years. One of those in twenties, which is the Turbocharged four cylinder from a F two x F three X three series two series.

Those things are not my favorite. They just don’t hold up particularly well. Even in street form, they don’t hold up particularly well. They make okay power. You know, I, I think the defining point from that is, um, you know, we, we were one of very few teams to race those, those engines and about three years into the program, and we finally figured out how to get those things to live more than two races, two races on a motor, you know, which involved lots of exotic parts and tuning and cooling.

We, we spent two or 300 grand on cooling solution just to make that thing live. We had some BMW engineers over from Germany and the, you know, they had their, their new M six that they’re super proud of and yeah, we built this and, and come over and look at what other people are doing and, and they knew of our team and what we were doing.

They wanted to come [00:44:00] over because they couldn’t believe that that engine. Lived in a racing environment and they’re like, oh yeah, that was, that was a terrible motor. So it was like, yes, we know this. This is a terrible motor that’s gonna go on my list of one of the, might not be the worst, but certainly one of the worst that BMW did followed by a 12 cylinder.

That from that 8 50, 7 50 or you know, some of the eight cylinders that they just have little niggly things that just don’t go quite right that make that a bad ownership experience for people. Yeah, I don’t really have any, any negative experiences. I, I can tell you po positive, obviously I’m, I’m partial to the S 14 in, in the S 38, right.

The, the derivative of the M 88 that’s in the E 24 M six s and the M fives, like I was talking a minute ago, I, I love the sound of that, you know, one of my cars has really nice exhaust on it. And just the way that, just the natural rumble sound of it, I think is fantastic. And, you know, I gotta say, thank God it was an inline six.

I had a, a fuel line that cracked and was spewing gas down the cold side of the motor. Had that been a V8 or something, it would’ve been a fire [00:45:00] for sure. So, side bonus of, of having a. You know, an inline motor, you know, I mentioned it earlier, seat for every As. So these new BMW designs are all over the planet.

And you know, it kind of makes me wonder what do we think about the, the whole evolution of bmw? Because if you look at it, I mean, they started with planes and motorcycles and then finally into cars, and it’s been this constant just churn. We had the Bengal period, and most people don’t realize that there’s, even Bob Lutz is involved in this famous from gm, right?

He’s the one that coined the advertising phrase, the ultimate driving machine. And there’s tons of jokes around that. You know, the ultimate driving machine, so long as it’s sunny outside, you know, there’s no rain, no snow or anything in the forecast. But what do we think about the future? I know, James, you said you’re an early adopter, but.

BMW’s done some really interesting press releases recently, right? Saying they’re gonna be the last of the Germans with an internal combustion engine. They were saying for the longest time, they were gonna be the last ones with a manual. They were gonna be the last ones to do all these [00:46:00] kinds of things.

And what do we think about that? What do we think about the direction they’re headed? I do love so many things about B M W and, and you know, I, I don’t have a lot of bad things to say or a lot of negative things to say, and I, and I’ll tell you, my ownership experience has been largely positive too. You mentioned your E 36 track car and probably too many fingers in that pie.

And so, you know, that’s a, that’s certainly a factor. But I’ve, I’ve certainly been lucky to some good degree because I, I know there’s stories out there, bad B m w ownership, but I’ve almost exclusively enjoyed every B M W I’ve been in. Different things for different people. I enjoy different aspects of different cars.

I don’t have to love the whole thing. There’s some things I scratch my head at. Certainly, I’m, I’m driving an I eight right now. That’s my daily and I, you know, no offense fats, my, my bad. No, it’s, and, and I don’t love those that, you know, this one’s a Roadster and I, I think it’s looks much better than the other version, but, you know, it doesn’t make the most power, but it does some things really well and it’s, it’s pretty cool.

I do think the model proliferation is a little rough. I think sometimes a car is made [00:47:00] and maybe a. Nobody knows why that car is made. I drove, uh, oh eight 50 s when they, the, the recent, the recent version, not the original version, but the recent version, which is a, a, a twin turbo hot BV eight, you know, that thing, not the Grand Coupe, not the four door.

And so this thing has like the longest nose on a bmw. It’s like Packard nose and it’s got not enough room to put anything notable in the trunk. I sat in the backseat one time and had to sit across the two seats. It’s like this massive car with a backseat, like a nine 11 turbo. And yeah, I, I just don’t get that.

And I think unfortunately the market didn’t get that one either. The grand coops had some success and, you know, the, the inmate is a pretty awesome car, but, you know, some’s sizes boss, right. But it’s, you know, I, I talked to, you know, bill Arbon is one of our drivers and he has an inmate competition and he’s like, yeah, that’s what I want.

I want a car that I can go 140 and cruise, and it’s just plush and luxurious. And he’s like, you know, some of the M three M [00:48:00] four stuff, it’s hard for us to think of an M three and M four is raw, but compared to one of those inmates, there are a lot more raw than that. Certainly nothing compared to. You know, what an E 30 M three would be back in the day or, or something like that.

Or even that E 46 M three, which is a high revving motor and, and still makes lots of noise, et cetera. But anything that, that, you know, the X Series stuff where there’s not enough headroom for the back passenger for the benefit of some styling queue, like the, you know, X four X six, you know, that deal with the slope rear roof line.

I don’t totally get that. I mean, I was floored when I saw the X two the first time. I was like, what in the heck is this right? Yeah. I didn’t understand it. I don’t, I don’t get the, the, the roundels on the, on the C pillars either. It makes no sense. But, uh, that’s another design choice we won’t get into. But to your point, even about the M eight, the joke I make there is because of all the IMSA jokes, right?

It’s the biggest car on track. I mean, it literally looks like a school bus out there compared to everything else. To your point about the model proliferation, before we go onto [00:49:00] Donovan’s feedback on this, what I don’t understand right now, and you said it multiple times, the M three M four, and you say it together now, M three, M four, what happened to the four door M three and the two door M three?

Why did we have to add. 19 other numbers to the scale. Like it’s so confusing now. I don’t get it. You know, our web guys go absolutely nuts because every couple of weeks it feels like we’re adding another chassis code and it’s, I mean, it’s intense, you know? It’s their new way of cataloging and so be it.

And you know, we’re car guys, like we know that’s an E 36 for the rest of the world. That’s a, that’s a 3 28 or that’s an M three and they don’t, you know, the car, the, the chassis code is, you know, and maybe it seems like everybody I talk to every day, but it’s because I’m, I’m around car people every day. I don’t know that the rest of the world cares as much as my catalog guys or you know, the group of people we’re talking to now because we’re just, we are chassis code guys.

We’re E 30. You know, we, you know, we’re, we’re rarely talking about models. We’re talking about chassis, man. We, we went a while. You gotta remind me the question. What was the question [00:50:00] again? We were talking about basically where we’re at with all these different new BMW models and where the future is. And I have a follow on to this anyway, but.

I think there’s an aspect of BMW that maybe isn’t connected as well to its past and the enthusiast part. And then I think there’s another part that’s very well connected. And I think, you know, I will always own a BMW or multiples always. I, I’m sold for, for life, right? And to me, I think there are other companies that I believe have kind of lost their way.

Porsche, for example, right? They’re still making fantastic cars, but to me they’re a big corporate machine Now. The boutique days are long gone and good for them, right? I mean it’s, it’s fantastic. They’re making lots of money, but $85 for a t-shirt and things like that. And you know, the last Porsche meeting I went to, everybody around me was talking about, oh, I bought my Boxster now and you know, you probably didn’t know anything about the history of, of Porsche before that, you know, and kind of the back to the hairdresser car.

And again, good for them, right? That’s great success in the corporate world, but. You know, I think with bmw, I [00:51:00] think there is that aspect of somebody in the corporate office going, I don’t know, let’s call it a one, two, three, four, five, six, seven M or let’s, you know what I mean, where they’re just throwing numbers and we got the doors with this, that, and the other.

But I think there’s a large group. I mean, look how many performance cars they make, right? They, they really understand that enthusiast market and really are still in touch with that. And not to say that other companies aren’t, feels like BMW nurtures that. Right. And, and I think, you know, I made the comment earlier about, you know, a lot of the fast and furious crowd graduated to BMWs E 30 specifically, you know, now some other things I think that’s been great for the brand.

Right now it’s, hey BMW is important and as these new cars come out and, you know, I know we’ll all get used to the, you know, the G cars and everything else and, and whatever’s after that. But to me, you know, my F 80, when I get in it, it’s to the point where I’m having to learn to trust. The limits of the car that I haven’t found yet going in the mountains and things, I’m like, I don’t know.

You know, I’m, I’m old. Oh, it, it hooked up. You know what I mean? It’s, it’s one of those kind of things where it’s just, it’s built to perform and it’s not just [00:52:00] another, you know, sedan that they threw. You know, I, I haven’t driven a, a Cadillac CTS V lately, but you know, I imagine it’s not something like that where they just shoved a big engine in it and hope, you know, for the best.

Right. Go on. It’s designed to be a performance car, which I think is amazing. So I think, you know, for me, there’s kind of two faces there, right? There’s that corporate model of, you know, the marketing group who. Doesn’t seem to pay attention to the heritage of BMW the way that we would. But then there’s that M group that’s really, really kind of getting in there.

But you know, that journey for me, you mentioned Bob Lutz, you know that his, his book Idiots and Icons, and I’ve heard he takes, you know, credit for more things than he actually was responsible for, but you know, he claims responsibility for the 2002 Turbo and, and Saban, the Roundel the way it was and, and some other things.

And maybe he was, but you know, you look back at those things, you know, the, the, the turbo for example, in 2002 and then there was a gap for, you know, the, the 2002 was around for a while and in various forms, tis and things, but really, you know, you had some other cars and then the E 21, which James loves, and then we got to the, to the E 30 M three, right?

And that was kind of the [00:53:00] first almost, I know we had msms, right? We had M fives and M six s, but it was like, oh, we’re gonna do this again. And then they’ve carried that on and it feels like they’re making more performance oriented cars now than they were before. Um, they are obviously, but where I still get confused though, you know, I saw the other day.

It was an X four M competition. I don’t understand that at all. Right? To me, that’s. Somebody in the marketing group is like, let’s throw some labels on it so we can get a price tag for it. That’s not really a performance. Yeah. We like to call that badge engineering. Right. And that’s where I was kind of going with this in the sense of the future at bmw in that when one of our members, and one of our authors actually wrote an article about this and it was kind of the demise of the M badge, you know, like I don’t think M holds as much value as it used to because they’ll throw the M badge on anything to your point on an X five, on an X two, and you know, and then there’s the M 2 35 and the M one 30, you know, all this stuff and it makes no sense.

Now granted, BMW is not the only guilty party here. Audi does the same thing. They will throw an S and an RS on just about anything, right? It’s like, [00:54:00] what is going on over there? So there’s a little bit of, I think, feel like badge engineering going on in the German manufacturers right now. Maybe they took a page out of Porsche’s playbook because they started adding the alphabet after Carrera, you know, 20 years ago.

We get it. But they took that from, from Chevy and, and Ford back in the eighties and, and late seventies. But I guess. It makes me just wonder where things are going. But it also raises another question people don’t realize. You know, you hear in the news now, even right now, Porsche and Rimac, right? It’s a big deal.

Like Porsche made a huge investment in Rimac. You know, Bugatti is part of the V A G family. You got Audi, you got Lamborghini, Volkswagen, all these like, it’s now a big conglomerate, right? It’s not just Porsche. To your point, they’ve really transcended bmw. People don’t realize bought Rolls Royce, they own Minnie Cooper, they own a lot of other brands.

In there and are, you know, those of us that are in the know we go, oh X one. Yeah, that’s a Mini Cooper, that’s a countryman with different sheet metal on it. Big deal, right? Stuff like that. Or you look at the minis and you go, well, it’s a lot of BMW in [00:55:00] here. You know, that kind of deal. Do you guys think that was the right move?

Like has BMW just kind of stepped to the side and said, oh, we gotta innovate by acquisition, right? We can’t just do it alone anymore. I think there’s a solid core in bmw. Donovan kinda said that as well, I think, and I, I don’t think that just because there’s a solid core to the company, there’s very clearly a group of people in Germany, uh, I’m sorry, in Germany and bmw, um, in the US and Germany that are very passionate about the roots of the brand.

And you know, there are some outspoken folks that won’t let things go too far. Off the rails if they can help it. You know, to me that’s part of a solid core. We lament so many things that the reality of it is we consumers we’re not solely in control of the automotive market is a very difficult market.

And to navigate where you’re going to drive on a winding road that you’ve never seen before, you know it’s tough. And you have to be prepared so far out ahead for so many different possible outcomes and [00:56:00] shifts of how the industry goes. Just because you do it wrong occasionally. I think you have to be willing to do it wrong so you can evolve and do it right.

And I think BMW isn’t afraid to, to stick it out there and see if it works. You know, you’re kind of, to your point before, Eric, do we do, are they just. Throwing it out there. I don’t think that they’re willy-nilly throwing it out there and just hoping something is gonna work. I think it’s strategic on a variety of paths, many of which they feel very compelled to pursue.

I know that they are on this model for proliferation on the, the numerous models they now make. I think that that is very specifically to target a way that other manufacturers that they use as benchmarks have sold cars. And they feel like that’s an important thing, that they’d love to just do it their way, but they’re, they’re gonna have to evolve and, and do some of these other things, but they still have that solid core that is a tremendous number of solid performance cars.

So with that being said, and I know people are gonna [00:57:00] hate me for this, and I already made, I already made the comparison between the E 36 and the Miata, but you know, there’s a lot of truth in that statement. But some of these other brands, specifically German and Italian brands, European, the big brands, they stand.

On these pedestals of racing pedigree. Let’s face it, Ferrari, Mercedes, Porsche, I mean, then the list goes on and on where they have these mountains of awards that they’ve won, and B M W does have racing pedigree, and we didn’t really talk about it too much in motorsport, but I always feel like it’s, it’s a blip on the radar.

And so these other companies, you know, their heritage comes from the racing pedigree, but for bmw, where does the heritage come from? German engineering and tradition? Uh, you know, I think there, there’s certainly, um, part of that tradition is racing. I don’t think that that’s the only focus, you know, let’s, we know that Porsche makes performance as sports cars.

That’s what they do. And it’s no shocker that using their production cars, which is performance sports, car market focused, [00:58:00] that they have made tremendous race cars. Same for Ferrari. Mercedes rarely does it with their own production cars. Maybe a little bit recently they’ve dabbled, they’ll build something and then, you know, Put their name on it or, you know, I’m not gonna make fun of f1, but, but it’s not, it’s, it’s not a Mercedes, you know, let’s face it.

So BMW is, but even to your point, even, even to your point there, BMW dabbled in Formula One, it always feels like they’re dabbling in motorsport, right. For a little bit. A little bit of SSA and then they get out, right? They’re always kind of there, but I never feel like they’re at the front of Motorsport like they were for even a minute in lamont’s with the V12 lmr.

But again, it’s a blip in the radar because they were overshadowed by Audi, right? For many, many years after that. And so it’s, it’s always like, what’s going on, guys? Like, pick something. I, I don’t, I don’t think that they are devoted to motorsport at a fool hardy level, and not that the others are, you know, fool hardy in their pursuit.

But I think there’s always a very measured approach with bmw. And I think the world and the [00:59:00] series organizers know that, that, you know, they’re not here to stay. They’re here to have a program and they put this program together and they run it. And they’re not just headlong into this thing. No matter what happens, we’re gonna have the leading F1 team.

And they, they did it for a while and they were successful. And like I said before, they, they are car manufacturer. They’re not a racing car manufacturer, and they, they need to pivot as the industry pivots and F1 became not the important thing for them to pursue. So, They stop pursuing it. You can’t be afraid to stick your nose out and you can’t be afraid to pull it back if you’re gonna be an agile business.

So it makes me wonder like some companies like Porsche and Ferrari, et cetera, that are at the front end of a lot of these motorsports, uh, disciplines that are out there, a lot of the technology that they develop, they use motorsport to refine and build and, and make better, and that eventually trickles its way down into the production cars.

Is the same true of B M W because they don’t spend, let’s say, nearly as much time there. Are they using it as, you know, a science fair project? I don’t, you know, I don’t think it’s a science fair project. You know, they, they got out [01:00:00] of F1 when there was questionable future as to, as to what we’re going to be doing with internal combustion, et cetera.

And then they, they started pursuing Formula E and they’ve gone after that when they were clearly behind in electric technology and they needed to get onboard and spend more time on that. I don’t, I don’t think they’re behind. I think they’re innovative people. I don’t think you have to innovate purely on the racetrack.

Sometimes the racetrack is also the place to just show the world what you’ve done. Is it innovation? Is it showing the world what you’ve created and just being know you can’t package it in a production car. So here it is on the racetrack for everybody to see. I like what they’ve done because I think it’s prudent, prudent in racing, maybe aren’t the most compatible things.

Um, you know, they’re, they’re certainly not for the most successful. You know, they, they’re not for Ferrari, right? Nobody would say that their pursuit of motorsport excellence was necessarily prudent, but they took a different path and they, but they’re a different company because of it. I, I think, you know, in this way, B BMW has been true to its roots, which is a solid car.

It’s a performing car. You know, I often refer to it [01:01:00] as a, in, in lovingly. So this is a working man’s car. This is a, this is a little bit of a blue collar German car because I’m so fortunate, um, you know, from a emerald standpoint to be in the BMW world. Because I can sell parts to people that make decisions and then put their hands on those parts when they put ’em on their car.

That doesn’t happen in Porsche world and, and Mercedes world, at least not to this level. So to those roots, I think the BMW approach has been pretty true. Donovan, anything you want to add before we segue? But I would say, you know, you talk about them being a blip on the radar. I don’t think that’s totally fair.

Right? You think about, you know, Mercedes was gone for many years after Lamar incident and things, but you know, BMW is, is kind of always been there, right? And, and kind of kicking ass when they do. Even going back to seventies, like the CSL cars we talked about, you know, some of the other ones, the, the M three, the L lmr, when they come on the scene, it’s big, you know, I, I know what you mean about, they kind of come and they go, right?

I’d love to see, you know, another BMW F one team or a big, you know, LM P team and, and they’ll get back to it. But I think when they do come in, it’s big news. And, [01:02:00] you know, it’s interesting. You guys are making a good point though. I never really thought about it this way, that, you know, I think it is absolutely true that Porsche develops nine 11 on the racetrack.

I don’t think BMW does that right. And I don’t know. Right. But it, to me, it seems like the other way around, let’s go out and, and test some technology or let’s show off what we’ve done where we’re not designing a race car for the street. It’s kind of the other way around. So that’s, I, I hadn’t thought about it that way.

It’s kinda interesting perspective, which I think is a great opportunity for us to now change gears and talk a little bit about Biber world since James brought it up here as we were kind of wrapping up our talk on Motorsport. So for those of you that don’t know what Biber World is, it is a premier North American BMW performance facility.

Bimmer World Racing drives development and keeps the company on the cutting edge of BMW performance. They make available for their customers applications for street, all the way through professional racing. And they are the most knowledgeable staff in the BMW market. So James, let’s talk about member world as I’ve kind of set it up for you there.

And tell us about the origin and the [01:03:00] history. You alluded to being in, in BMW ownership from back in your college days, but how did you get from that? To being the president of Biro. Oddly and I, I figured this out many years later, when you start a business, you are immediately the president of said business.

So that wasn’t that long of a path, as you might imagine, because I started my ownership of the BMW early on. We talked about that, the E 30 M three that I started taking to the racetrack. And since I was in college and I had enough money to buy the car, but not to do anything else, I started selling parts from the car back seats.

You don’t need those on a racetrack, AC compressor. You don’t need that. You know the things out of the car. So by definition, I was immediately president of Bier world. So I didn’t, you know, didn’t call it Bier World until maybe a couple years into that. And it was a way, you know, Bier World really is the name of my experience to be able to own, enjoy, appreciate, drive, race, whatever it is, BMW cars.

And I’m lucky to have ended up, [01:04:00] you know, with my nose down in a place that, that turned into a business with lots of great people that sells BMW parts to a, you know, a wide range of customer. But, It was a long journey of figuring out how to keep a race car on track and, and do the things I love doing with the people I love doing it with.

And so it, it just kind of turned into a company, I guess. So for those that don’t know, what kind of products does BIM World offer these days? We offer everything. We, we sell less expensive maintenance parts. Uh, you know, the aftermarket in the, in the way that, you know, if you, if you just need to have your car to get to work, we got you covered.

We’re cost effective. We sell floor mats. We sell stuff that my mom needs for her car, and then we, we sell. Racing parts and track parts and, you know, drifting parts. We haven’t pursued some markets to the end of the earth, but we are, you know, in, in my opinion, it’s a, it’s a very wide range of products for anybody that owns a BMW and wants to get them from a supplier who can back them up with the knowledge on how to use them, how to select the right things, how to [01:05:00] make the parts work in concert for the best possible outcome, which, you know, as you get more and more into the performance and racing world becomes a more important thing.

So for those of us that have been buying parts from BER world, myself included, in every package you get, there’s generally a couple things in the box. There’s stickers and things like that. But what’s the deal with the Haribo gummy bears? Not the gummy bears, right? The golden Baron. So yes, those are those, those are straight from Germany and, and we go to great pains to get them from Germany.

The FDA has tried to shut us down before. It’s difficult to get the quantity of German. Golden barren that we get. But no, I just, I thought that’d be fun. You know, I th this whole business is the thing I like to do with the people I like doing it with. And it’s fun. And it needs to stay fun. And, and that’s just one of those things, like I’ve always said to the people in, in our warehouse, you know, when somebody opens that package, it should feel like Christmas morning.

So they should get a package that’s well wrapped, that’s well packaged, you know, that just looks like, gosh, that thing I’ve been waiting for and couldn’t wait to [01:06:00] arrive. And so it gets there and then, you know, there’s more fun inside. It’s, you know, there’s parts, but then there’s also, you know, the stickers, the gummy bears, the gold bear.

And then, yeah, I don’t know. I just thought it was an, a nice touch and, you know, it’s, it’s grown into something I never thought it would, because sometimes we can be a slave to the bears and, and you know, I, I know when we’re out of bears, or, you know, when they’ve, when we’ve had a shipment that wouldn’t get clear customs or whatever, because I start getting hit on social, you know, where are my bears?

I didn’t get the bears with the last shipment, you know, so it, it’s a thing now, but that’s all right. It’s a fun thing. So was that something like when you were first getting started you were just like, uh, you just chuck it in the box? Like, why the gummy bears? Is it just because No, not even because I used to get stuff when I was building my car back in the day with, from Summit racing.

I used to get stuff in the, in the box and stickers and stuff like that. I’m like, this, what’s this crap? I don’t need this. You know? I don’t know, maybe I turned the corner, but you know, at some point I, it just, it became fun, right? It’s, I, I have no idea why, and I have no idea why they’re German. I, I’ll tell you what, I do a lot of [01:07:00] my best, most creative work at like 3:00 AM in the morning, and, and I don’t do as many 3:00 AM work sessions as I used to, but sometimes, especially when I’m writing something or whatever, it just rolls at 3:00 AM That’s just, that’s the golden hour for me.

And I have a feeling that this is one of those ideas that came up as I’m at my desk doing work, dumping out whatever, whatever happens at those hours of the, the night. I, I’ve had a lot of horrible ideas. Um, so I’m, I’m glad we’re talking about gummy bears, not. You know, hundreds of thousands of dollars that we’ve blown on failed racing programs.

But, you know, they, they’re all probably from that similar, uh, period of, of the evening. And for some reason it just felt like a good idea. I think it’s a great idea. To me it’s that added delight of, you know, oh cool, I got something special. And you, you think about it, package design is really important.

Many times you open an Apple product and like, wow, this is really put together well, or you know, and I love the stickers too. So any stickers you wanna throw away my way. And we all have buddies that have em all plastered all over their toolboxes and everything. There’s a home for all this somewhere. So I think it’s a really [01:08:00] cool, absolutely.

Awesome. Thank you. What’s on the horizon? Is there anything new? Anything you want to tell the audience about with respect to Vior? We just keep growing and we just keep doing what we do. I, again, you know, for me it’s a, it’s a lot about being able to do BMW things. I’m working to be able to do more of those things to kind of broaden our horizons.

Um, Kevin, our marketing manager, came up with the idea, it’s like, Hey, we’re so focused on this racing world and this performance world. There’s a lot of other B m W worlds out there. So we’re, we’re working to kind of pursue those and enjoy those and participate alongside our customers. I think that’s our current focus.

I mean, we’re, you know, we’re working on race cars and new race programs. The GT four or GT three, I guess M four is coming out. We’ve got this pikes car that’s, that’s ridiculous and that thing’s gonna gonna keep getting some love. And so there’s, there’s plenty of projects that we’re working on, but you know, we’re just trying to do everything BMW and do it well.

And you know, I think that’s our pursuit right now. Right, and you actually brought up a really good point on our previous get together. When we talked, you were wearing your powerflex [01:09:00] hat and not your Bimmer world hat. You guys were getting geeked and getting psyched up to take the E 36 2 Pikes Peak. So let’s talk about that.

How did it turn out? Good, the bad, the indifferent? So it was good. It was good in that it was a three and a half year project and we finally had that baby. It’s an E 36 in loose words, but it is an E 36 with lots of E 36 d n a. It did go up the mountain successfully and quickly. You know, with a project this large in scope, I guess wasn’t really a concern of mine because I know that the guys I’m working with, but I was proud to see that happen.

It’s the craziest car I’ve ever driven. The first time I’ve driven it. With the big motor, we dino it at 1,110 horsepower, but we couldn’t put enough weight on the tires to, to keep ’em from spinning. So we don’t know actually how much it made, but we know that we threw a hundred more millibar boost at it on the mountain, and we made more power on the mountain.

So we assume it’s somewhere around, we’d said initially when we built the car, 1350 at, at the crank. And you know, we’re, we’re probably much [01:10:00] closer to that at the tire right now. So Pike’s Peak is this ridiculous event where you wake up at one something every morning so that you can be at, you know, on the mountain in line at three 30 in the morning, and you go up to your section in the dark, and then just as the sun starts to peak up and you’ve had your third or fourth coffee, you’re starting to wake up a little bit.

You strap into this thing and get launched, like it’s a space shuttle and it’s quite the wake up call and that was one of the most terrifying things I’ve ever, you know, to get woken up like that every morning, like here we go in this ridiculous machine. It was nuts. But it was amazing to get to your point, we finished third in class, ninth overall, we didn’t get to run to the top cuz there was ice on the top of the mountain, snowed eight inches the night before.

It was foggy on the way up. It was an interesting event. But I loved the car, I loved the car I was in. I had so much fun in that thing and I’m gonna have a lot of fun as we continue to develop it for next year’s hundredth running of that event. So I gotta ask, because I’m sure the audience is wondering too, 1300 horsepower, let’s just say theoretically, out of [01:11:00] which BMW motor.

It’s an E 36, so it’s, you know, wait, has to be an E 36 motor, right? No, no, of course not. It’s, and that’s the best thing about an E 36. They can be anything. So that’s out of a P 63, which is the Motorsport version of an S 63 tu, which is the current and outgoing M six GT three motor that we’ve hopped up quite a bit.

So V8 twin turbo, lots of boost. That’s gnarly, man. That’s really cool. So, any lessons, any lessons learned from that car? That’s an experiment. It’s also just throw it out there and show what we figured out, show what we can do, and we work with our partners on a build like this. And we do, we do stuff that’s, it’s really hard to translate it into things our customers will do.

We certainly learn things. We’ve, you know, we were on a, a set of MCs four ways that that’s their new damper design and we got some good experience with those and, you know, had some revisions and so forth that, that will serve us well [01:12:00] as we, as we bring those to market various things. It, you know, we’re, we’re not gonna put a transaxle in a lot of people’s cars.

We’re not gonna put arrow at the, the level that this car has it on anyone’s car, but, you know, we’re, we’re gonna go to the wind tunnel and we’ll get to, we’ll get to play with Arrow on a project that has the budget for that, and then we’ll be able to translate that in general terms to things that we do with customer cars and our own product line and so forth.

So there’s always learning opportunities and the better you get at translating ’em to the things that make money instead of just blow money, the more successful we are at our business. In closing, anything else you’d like to add about bimmer world that you wanna share with the rest of the audience? I say it and, and maybe, uh, not often enough, first of all.

And the, and the core thing is, you know, Bimmer world is, is our people. And, and I love people I work with and what we do, and I love that our customers do as well. I get a lot of great feedback on that. We’re all here doing it because we love doing it. And so that’s kind of a core piece to me. But I love growing stuff.

I, I love just for growing stuff, just for that reason. Just like, I want to go fast just because I want to go [01:13:00] fast, because I wanna win races just because you should be standing at the top of the podium. It’s just, it’s, you know, the, the drive to grow things. But I’ll tell you in the, in the world of larger business and private equity and all that stuff, I’m really thankful to have chosen a career that I’m able to still do what I love with people.

I love doing it with and without any of the BS that seems to, if you’re not careful, find its way into to the thing that you like doing and. Make it not as much fun as it used to be. Thanks. Thanks everybody for supporting us and giving me that opportunity. And I, we get thanks a lot for, you know, the things that we do, but can’t thank my staff and my customers enough for really allowing me to do what I do.

So that’s awesome. A lot of us are still trying to realize that dream, right? Doing what we love and getting paid to do it, I suppose. But, uh, that, that’s super admirable and very awesome and congratulations on all your guys’ success over these many, many years of being in business with BE World and going from just B m W enthusiasts to, you know, this, this big company and big support system for B M W and B M W enthusiasts.[01:14:00]

So I do have one. Kind of pit stop s question that I’ve been holding before we wrap up here. And it’s for both of you guys. So I’m gonna make this one optional. We ask this a lot. It’s the, you know, the island question we call it, or the the three car garage. So I’m curious your guys’ opinion, and I’ve probably asked you both this before on previous pit stops, but just to refresh our audience’s mind, you have the option of filling your three car garage with three BMWs and it’s the only three BMWs you can have for the rest of your life or any three cars.

And money is no object. So I’ll start with Donovan. What’s in your three car garage? Oh man. I’m gonna say bmw since this is a BMW session and I’m gonna exclude anything that I currently own. So I’ll go high side M one’s gotta be in there just for the collector value. I think Dixie and A and an O two turbo.

I think those have gotta be, I mean, and I’m taking the, the collector ish out of it, right? Assuming they’re all equal. Yeah, I’ll stick with that. James, what do you think? Yep. BMWs, because that’s what we’re talking about. I think I’m gonna put that 3 [01:15:00] 28 in there. And I might take it out of the garage occasionally, especially since I didn’t pay anything for it, it just transported its way into my three car garage, which I also don’t have.

But you know, whatever, there’s gotta be an E 36. I absolutely love them. And since I get to choose whatever I want, I want to take that chia E 36, because I think that’s the most gorgeous car BMW made and you know, of a, of an era of the touring cars that I just absolutely loved. So the chia E 36 will be in there.

And then, because we’ve gotten the opportunity to talk about ’em so much tonight, and a little thumb of the nose to some people out there, I’m gonna put a G 80 in there because I think they’re gorgeous and I’m gonna back that puppy in so that when I open the garage door, all you get to see is the the grill.

And I think you may not appreciate it now, but you’re gonna learn to love it whether you like it or not. Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well folks, for more information on BMWs, your source has got to be Bimmer World. You can find [01:16:00] them@www.bimmerworld.com or Instagram and Facebook at Bimmer World. But if you wanna continue this chat or express your opinions, be sure to join Donovan on Garage.

Riot the social media platform for Petrolheads like you@www.garageriot.com or download the Garage Riot app. From the Apple or Google Play stores and sign up today for free. So that being said, both of you gentlemen, this has been a blast. I know you, I gave you both grief. I, I understand both your passion, your love, and your pain for BMWs.

And you know, I can’t thank you both enough for coming on the show. I think this has been a lot of fun. People learn something along the way and, you know, if you’ve got comments, questions, or suggestions, you know where to put ’em, drop us a line on, uh, Instagram or Facebook or any of the social media platforms we’re on.

We’re happy to hear from anybody out there. But again, thank you to both of you guys for coming on here. This has been really awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me again. Yeah, thanks so much. And, and this is a podcast, so it’s [01:17:00] audio only. So everybody won’t get to appreciate. One of the things that I enjoyed most is every time you would say something about BMWs, it was negative.

I love Donovan’s eye roll, and then like, look up in the corner or whatever. Amazing. So just know that, that you’re up against two BMW guys and it’s not a fair fight tonight. All right, well we’ll have you back for the v a g episode then, then I, that I can really get beat up on Oh oh boy, and on that final shell.

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We’d love to hear from you. Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode [01:18:00] of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that G T M remains a no annual fees organization, and our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies and GTM swag.

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