Bob Garretson & The Apple 935

• Tell us about the who/what/when/where of Bob Garretson, how did you get into cars? And eventually into racing? Did it start as a kid? Did you come from a racing family?
• What’s Garretson Enterprises?
• How did the Apple 935 come to be?
• What was it like racing with and against folks like Brian Redman, Bobby Rahal, Al Holbert, Randy Lanier and others. 
• It’s been said that the Porsche 935 was one of the most challenging cars to drive and master; what was the appeal of that car over others, and what was it like to drive? Did you still hold the 935 in the same regard?
• What have you been doing in the racing world since dissolving the team? Did you go back to racing?

and much, much more!

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder. How did they get that job? Or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us. Because everyone has a story.

Crew Chief Eric: Being the owner and driver of a sports car team during the heyday of sports car racing in the late 1970s and early 80s can be challenging, but also very rewarding. Competing part time in both the World Sports Car Championship and IMSA GT Championship, during 1978, Arges accomplished a win at the Sebring 12 Hours, along with veteran racer Brian Redmond and Bobby Rayhall.

Arges won the 24 Hours of Daytona, but despite not winning another race that season, he won the first ever awarded [00:01:00] World Endurance Championship for driver’s title in 1981. He sold his team and retired from racing shortly thereafter. But that’s just the beginning. So tonight, I’d like to welcome back Mike Carr from the Randy Lanier episode as my co host, who is a huge fan of the golden era of sports car racing.

And with that, we are both pleased to welcome Bob Gerritsen to Break Fix to tell his story. So welcome, Bob. Thank you very much for that introduction.

Mike Carr: Very nice to be here with you, Bob. Thank you.

Crew Chief Eric: So Bob, like all good Brake Fix stories, there’s always an origin. So tell us about the who, what, where, and when of Bob Gerritsen.

How did you get into cars and eventually into racing? Did it start as a kid? Did you come from a racing family?

Bob Garretson: Well, I, uh, grew up in Southern California, and my older brother, who is quite a bit older than I am, but he was into going up to Muroc, Dry Lake, and trying to, you know, run the speed stuff. So I thought, well, when I got to drive, I should do the same thing.

So I fiddled [00:02:00] around, but didn’t enthuse me very much. And so then a high school friend of mine saw a sports car race being run at Hanson Dam in the, in San Fernando Valley. Southern California. So we went to that, look at my friend. And I said, look at those guys get to drive for 20 minutes and we only get to drive for 20 seconds.

I think there’s a better deal. So got interested in road racing, then went off to university and do much of anything until I got out of the Navy after graduation, I worked my way through college. Overhauling Ford V8. My dad worked at Warner Brothers Studio and he would find people that needed an engine overhaul.

So I would come home on the weekend, pick up a car, take it home, pull the engine out, tear it all down, send the block and heads and stuff out to the vendors to grind the valves and bore the cylinder and all that kind of stuff. I come home the next weekend. I’m trying to get it all back together and on the third weekend i would come [00:03:00] put the engine back in and deliver the car when i graduated from uc berkeley i want to work for hewlett packard when i was working at hp silicon valley started to go at a party one night a guy.

Telling me about he was starting a new chip manufacturing company. And so I jokingly said to him, well, if you need a mechanical engineer, let me know. Well, he called me up the next day and hired me. So I got in on the ground floor of Silicon Valley was lucky enough to invent something that every chip maker needed patented and all that kind of stuff.

Now I had money to play with and go racing. So that’s what one of my close friends is. Another name you most likely know. Chuck Forge, he had the Johnny Von Neumann car and we got to be friends and he let me drive it a few times and then I got hooked. But by then I had acquired four children and things like that and my wife said, I don’t think it’s a great idea for you to be out road racing.

So I said, well, you know, [00:04:00] okay. She said, I don’t mind if you’re the only one on the track, you know, not competitive wheel to wheel. So I took off and started doing hill climbs and autocrosses and things like that.

Mike Carr: And you’re in your twenties at that point, I presume.

Bob Garretson: Well, thirties almost, but along about them, one of the guys I used to compete against with at Porsche parades and stuff like that was a guy by the name of Dick Barber, which I’m sure you all know.

You know, we used to talk and I would go to Laguna Seca, for example, and I’d see him and he, I’d say, Dick, you ought to have Garrison Enterprise prepare your car. He says, no, no, no, I have a great mechanic and all this stuff. I said, all right, fine. At Laguna Seca, he DNF’d, so that’s why I suggest he ought to have us take care of his car.

So next time I saw him was at Sears Point. Same thing happened. Well, he got pretty ticked off at his people and told him to take the car down to Mountain View, where our shop was. So we started preparing that. Well, the first race it went out to [00:05:00] run was the finale at Atlanta. Of course, wouldn’t you know, in practice, something happened.

And God, here I am saying how wonderful we are and all that stuff. Well, it turns out that the Porsche truck was there and I could get the parts needed and fix it and he finished the first race in these nine thirty four and a half. So next year he bought a new nine thirty five said to him, I said, Dick, you ought to let me drive the spare car.

And he agreed that I said, if you can drive it as long as you’ll drive with renter riders that pay to sit in the seat. The first race was the 78 Sebring race. Brian Redman was just recovering from his big Formula 5000 accident. Joe Hoppin was running Porsche Racing in America, and he convinced Barber that, you know, I guess paid him some money, of course, to put Redman in the seat with me, which is fine.

The owner of the Sebring track was the third driver. And so we went [00:06:00] off and, uh, as the night went on, everybody broke and stuff like that. And, uh, here we go win the race. So that was kind of an exciting start. And I didn’t race many races after that. I did Le Mans, which I crashed on the Mulsanne straight at four o’clock in the morning.

Uh, didn’t really get serious as far as I was concerned about racing until the next year when we ran the whole season. Did, you know, Bond didn’t win any races in my whole career in IMSA. I only won two races. So one of them was Daytona and the other was Sebring. So we went on and ran and prepared the SACS car for Barbara up through 1980.

81, Barbara quit racing. So I was left with what to do. And there was another team of Roy Woods and Cook. Brian Redman came to me and he said, look, a new car coming over, new Lola. Which he is supposed to drive. He said, uh, I want you guys to prepare the [00:07:00] car. The car wasn’t ready for Daytona and the car wasn’t ready for Sebring.

And finally it showed up at Laguna Seca. We brought the car down from Mountain View and ran it. Bobby Rahal drove the 935 at that race. Of course, the Lola T70 won the race, and Brian went on to win the IMSA championship. But at Le Mans in that year, I drove with Annie Charlotte Vernet and Ralph Kent Cook, and we got in a big fight over some stuff, and I was on my own.

But my car that we drove at Le Mans. So I just went and carried on on my own going to the races I could afford. I was, you know, not in the big financial position like those guys cook and stuff. And so I finally had to give up in about August. I just couldn’t afford it anymore. I get this telephone call from Juergen Barth at Porsche.

Juergen says, Bob, are you coming to Brands Hatch? I said, [00:08:00] why do I want to go to Brands Hatch? He says, well, you’re leading in the world championship. You’ve got to come to Brands Hatch. Word got out that some of the guys that I’d driven with, one of them’s sponsor was Flying Tiger Airlines, and he convinced Flying Tigers to fly the car to England and back.

All the crew guys, I said, I can’t, can only take a couple of you. And they all came on their own and stuff like that and we made it over there and we finished second in the race but group C what had been formed so they ran group C cars and group five cars, uh, four are driven by a couple of formula one guys.

Won the race, but we finished second and won the world championship, winning the world championship and then having and going through a divorce. I moved to England and that was, that was it.

Mike Carr: I want to talk to you about your approach to choices in terms of what races you enter. They had sort of a manufacturer’s prize going on, and privateers [00:09:00] were racing a set of races, and then the makers were racing a different set of races, focusing on winning that maker’s trophy.

And it seems like it added up to you not only winning the season, but assuring your place in the FIA Hall of Fame on a limited season of select entries, maybe half the entries were in us and half the entries were in Europe. Which did you focus on?

Bob Garretson: I only did six races out of the 10, five in the United States and one in Europe.

One of the brands hatched the finale, but you know, the old adage, you got to finish to win. We finished every race. That was the goal.

Mike Carr: Another thing that struck me as unusual is Lancia as the maker won that year. Over Porsche and other manufacturers. I’m confounded as to how that happened.

Bob Garretson: The car that beat us at Brands Hatch was a Ford.

It was a Group C car, not a Group 5. This is the thing that kind of upsets me a little bit, is that the race was for the world championship [00:10:00] in endurance racing. Yet they allowed cars that weren’t in that championship to compete and

Mike Carr: a

Bob Garretson: group C car is going to beat a nine 35 every single time, especially if you’ve got two formula one drivers sitting in it and have tested it and all that kind of stuff.

And I just felt that we kind of got cheated a little bit in the quote glory that the team and the effort and Porsche and everybody else put forth. Yeah, we’d won the world championship, but the world championship really didn’t become. A big deal until all the cars were running group C cars and Jackie X was my successor.

And then, you know, it goes on and on and on from there.

Mike Carr: You just laid down an immense amount of information where I want to go back to is how you had a wife who told you that she didn’t want to see you doing wheel to wheel, but you had a race shop. that was better than the shops that were working on competitors cars.

Crew Chief Eric: Behind all this is Gerritsen Enterprises, so let’s talk about what that is, [00:11:00] its history, what it’s all about, and how that was fueling, basically, your racing career.

Bob Garretson: I had a 356 Porsche. And a Ford station wagon,

right? Well, when I was telling you about this Hanson damn race and wanting to get a sports car rather than a dragster, the car I wanted to get was an Austin Healy. So you’ll mark two. I had one all lined up to buy the guide. I was going to buy it from died and his wife sold the car trying to get rid of stuff before she contacted me.

Anyway, when I was in the Navy, I went back to a homecoming. Event at the fraternity house and met the guy that I’d gone to school with there. We got talking about cars and I told him, well, I’m trying to buy an Austin Healey. He said, ah, you don’t want to buy an Austin Healey. He said, come with me. We go outside and there’s a little 356 coupe sitting there.

An early model, uh, not even an A. He said. Come with me. We’ll go for a ride. Well, [00:12:00] that was it. I went after that ride. I had to have a 356. I saved everything up and in January 1958, I bought a 57 356 and that’s where I started having fun driving a lot. I used to autocross and hill climb all the time.

Crew Chief Eric: This comes right at the heels of the whole James Dean situation with him.

Bringing the 356 into the popular view of, you know, Southern California. And then he switches to the 550 and then his untimely death. We covered this in a previous episode with Lee Raskin, but you’re right in the middle of all this. Was that also a factor in you getting your 356 or why it suddenly just was there as a popular car?

Bob Garretson: After, and I couldn’t, and I didn’t get the Austin Healy. I started looking into when I got the HP. I said, there’s seven Porsches sitting out in the parking lot. You know, they’re going to need service at night at home. I had four kids and the wife and trying to buy a house and all this stuff. So I have always was [00:13:00] short of money.

So I approached a few of these guys and you need service on your car and oil change, you know, all this kind of stuff. So I started doing that at night in my garage. One of the guys that worked there knew nothing about cars, but it was very interesting guy by the name of Bruce Anderson. You may hear that rallying around the Porsche world.

So he started hanging around and finally one day he said, can you come with me to my parents house and have a talk with my father? Oh my god, what did I do now? He was getting elderly and wanted to get his sons into some kind of business where they could be independent. So he said, look, if you’ll open up a shop and do this on a full time basis.

With these two kids and not me working full time because I’m staying at HP, I’ll finance the start. So that’s where Garretson Enterprises started. We grew out of a one stall to two stalls to four stalls on a industrial complex. Then [00:14:00] when my mother passed away, my brother and I built a purpose building with seven lifts, a dino room, and all this stuff and started working on preparing race cars.

And that’s where it all got going. This whole thing with Barber started and after he agreed to bring the car down and stuff like that, we decided that, look it, we can’t work on race cars in the shop designed to run for street cars doing everyday service. So we put a hole in the fence in the back and there was an industrial site behind us and we rented a couple of places there and that’s where Garrison Racing was and we kept the name Garrison Enterprises on the cars and stuff like that to advertise the street shop.

Mike Carr: Head of technology at Google, you know, at some point he found himself with some money to do some racing, which good for him.

Bob Garretson: The funniest thing was, I don’t know if you were aware, but Steve Jobs had a 356, didn’t run, but he had a 356 and Wozniak had a [00:15:00] 928. He used to bring to us for service. The, uh, head of, um, public relations or whatever it is, also had a Porsche 911 or some kind that brought it to Garrison Enterprises for service.

And so, one day, a guy was coming to pick his car up and Steve Jobs drove him to the shop. And so I went up to him and I said, you know, you guys ought to sponsor a race car. Steve says, no, no, no, no way. We, you know, what’s that going to do for me? Well, when was the, I came back to pick up his car. See, I didn’t work there.

I never worked at Garrett’s enterprise because I was too busy in the, in the chip semiconductor business. But I used to come every day at lunchtime, every day at the end of the day, spend a couple hours there getting everything working right. And met these guys. And so after was asked about it and he was a little more.

Enthusiastic well, uh, advertising guy said, Hey, I think it’s a great idea. We’re opening a new campus in Cupertino. [00:16:00] I think it’d be just a absolute barn burner. If we had a nine 35 sitting out there on the apron, you know, with all the Apple colors. So I don’t know if you ever saw the Apple car, but in 1980, it was sort of the neatest looking.

935 running so that was a great event and that’s the car everybody that ever. It says, Oh, do you drove the apple car? And I said, yeah, I drove the apple car.

Mike Carr: Do you know how many tributes to that car have been built over the years?

Bob Garretson: Oh, no, I don’t. But there’s a whole bunch of them in Europe. Anyway, the guy that owns my 935 now, you’ll know the name, Adam Carollo.

We’ve heard of him. He’s a comedian, but he’s a nice guy, great guy. Matter of fact, at the last Monterey Historic System in August, I asked him, I said, this year’s races was sponsored by Le Mans, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, because they were trying to get people to come to the 100th anniversary of the race.

They were going to have demonstration [00:17:00] laps. They were trying to get all the drivers and all the cars that ever raced at Le Mans. Come over there. So anyway, I approached Adam. I said, Adam, would it be possible in these demonstration laps, you’re supposed to be following a pace car around and stuff like that, no racing or anything.

I said, would it be possible to drive the nine 35? I mean, I, first of all, I had to get permission from my wife because she doesn’t think I should do it, but anyway, she finally agreed. And so he let me drive the car, which. I mean, I can’t believe I drove that thing competitively. I mean, well, of course, I’m 89 years old now, so just unbelievable.

Just fantastic car.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s been said that the Porsche 935 is one of the most challenging cars to drive and to master. Tell us about that experience. experience, what you can remember of driving it. What’s the appeal of that car over others? Is it one of the best 911s ever? If you think about it in comparison, do you still hold the 935 in the same regard today knowing what you know about all the modern Porsches?

Mike Carr: How did it [00:18:00] compare to the 956?

Bob Garretson: Well, it was 956, of course, a whole different car. It was a ground effects car, 935, you know, had aerodynamics, but didn’t have any ground effects. I never drove a 962, so I can’t really comment on that, but the beauty of the 935 was how much of a beast it was. There was no finesse in that car.

You did it with brute force and… Ignorance and just, I mean, I was absolutely amazed when I drove this car this year and how fast it was. I mean, the acceleration was unbelievable in the day, you know, didn’t have that kind of an impression on you, but coming back almost 50 years later, uh, 40 years later anyway, it’s just unbelievable.

And the other thing that was interesting about the car, it had a locked rear end. Oh, you have to, you know, meet your down shifts and everything or else got squirrelly and stuff like that. And what I noticed was [00:19:00] driving the car this time, when I accelerated, it pulled to the right. And when I decelerated, it pulled to the left.

Come to find out that Adam Carolla and his mechanics that own the car know nothing about tire stagger. So with two different size rear tires, Uh, you’re going to get, you know, different actions on the acceleration and decelerate. So anyway, that’s one thing they’re getting straightened out. Cause he kept complaining.

He kept telling me what do I do to stop spinning out? I spin out. Well, I think this is what happens. He lets off on the gas and all of a sudden the car jerks one way and he doesn’t prepare for it. He’s not a better active driver and anything, but historic races and stuff like that. And most of the people that drive the 935s now, there’s a special limited slip differential made just for the car and they put that in so they don’t have this problem.

Mike Carr: Can we talk about 1981? Sure. So you’re with Redmond. It sounds like he may have been the motivating force to get you on track with [00:20:00] him. Is that right?

Bob Garretson: No. The way Redmond came along with, I told you about Sebring in 78.

Mike Carr: Yeah.

Bob Garretson: Somebody came to Joe Hoffman and said, Can you get Brian Redman a ride in the car?

He wants to start coming back. This was after his big accident in Canada. And so Arbor said, well, yeah, how much are you going to subsidize me for doing this? And it was just at the last minute, basically that he joined the team. So it was myself and Redman and. The guy that owned Sebring at the time was Charles Mendez

Mike Carr: was

Bob Garretson: it?

Mike Carr: You find yourself in your mid to late 40s.

Bob Garretson: When I won the championship in 81 I was 48 years old.

Mike Carr: And I think Redmond at the time was probably about 45. Yeah. And then you’ve got Rahal on the team and he’s a 28 year old kid. Who has found some success in F1 and F3, and his career is just taking off. How did you

Bob Garretson: hook up with him?

Mike Carr: Well,

Bob Garretson: here again

Mike Carr: at Sebring.

Bob Garretson: Wasn’t 78, but it was [00:21:00] one year at Sebring. He had just lost his ride with Wolf in Formula One when Wolf went broke. And so he didn’t have any ride. And so he came down to. Sebring looking around, talking to teens and, you know, asking to get a ride with him and stuff like that.

Mike Carr: He’s dock walking. He’s looking for a job. That’s great.

Bob Garretson: And Barbara said, yeah, you can drive. And so that’s how we got together. And then Bobby and I became. Yeah, even though there’s quite a difference in the race, we became very close friends. My wife and I and Bobby’s parents were great friends. We used to go back and stay with him and do things all the time.

And Bobby’s dad decided he wanted to run the Mille Miglia, you know, the repro of the Mille Miglia. So he asked me to get him a car, so I got a 550 Spyder for him. We ran that three years in a row, you know, things like that. That’s a Bobby and I are just great friends in France. They run a thing called a tour auto, which is a tour around France [00:22:00] and the doing race circuits along the way.

So Bobby and I, Ray Hall and I did that three times and one year, the last year we did it, we did it in a three liter RS 911. So one of the circuits that we’re going to drive is the old Nurburgring. And I don’t know how long it had been since Bobby had driven the course, but he still knew the turns. He says, okay, we’re, we’re going to come around the corner here.

It was a left hander. And he says, you’re going to see all kinds of cars over in the grass, up against the guardrail on the outside. Sure enough, we come up there and come flying around the corner. And there are all these cars sitting there. And you know, he still remembered after 10 years before the last time he raced, he still remembered all this stuff.

You know, just so simple for him. You always knew that he was in control, such a nice personality. Doesn’t have any errors about how great he is and stuff like that. He just, it’s just Bobby nowhere near the driver. He [00:23:00] is, but he’s unbelievable.

Mike Carr: Were you driving against the Randys and the Bob Wallocks and the other drug dealers in the early 80s who would buy a 935 at Le Mans with a bag full of cash?

No, you mean like, uh, Preston? Yes, we spent some time talking about Preston

Bob Garretson: Henn. Yeah. Well, Preston Henn was actually a nice guy, but, uh, just… Well, John Paul Sr. was the guy that was, uh… Real bad actor. And I felt sorry for his son because he had to live under that cloud, but it all right.

Mike Carr: Randy Lanier told us that John Paul Jr.

was the faster of the two.

Bob Garretson: Oh, definitely. John Paul Sr. was not that fast. He drove one of Barber’s cars at Aledega. Well, I didn’t drive at that race, but Arbor was faster than John Paul er in our car. I don’t know if in his own cars and stuff like that what he had, but,

Mike Carr: and then I was thinking of the Whittingtons.

Bob Garretson: Oh, the Whittingtons. Yeah. They now Whittingtons were good drivers. They were competitive all the time. I guess if you can fly AP [00:24:00] 51 Mustang, you can drive a sports

Crew Chief Eric: car, especially at 9 35. I mean, they’re probably on the same scale, right? Yes, that’s right.

Mike Carr: I think AB 51 might be better behaved.

Bob Garretson: Yeah, I don’t think you can spin out as fast in a P 51 as you can in a 935. You

Mike Carr: can’t pull over, but the ground’s pretty far away. That’s

Bob Garretson: right. Yep.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s gotta be a big jump going from autocross and hill climb right into sports car racing, into Camel GT and IMSA. And back then it was a little bit more open.

Everybody was building a better mousetrap, trying to build the best car, trying to one up each other and whatnot. What was it like? Out on track, not just in the 935, but some of your competitors, were there clear advantages and disadvantages between the cars? What was the competition like back then? We’re, you know, we’re talking about some of the drivers right now, but even in your short time, did you have some rivals?

Did you make friends? Like what was it like in those days?

Bob Garretson: That era, everybody was [00:25:00] friendly. I mean, you, you didn’t fear talking to anybody that they were going to get any secrets or anything like that. I think the biggest difference that I found in the racing in that was the preparation of the cars.

There were guys that was spending tons of money that cars were terrible. Put a Bob Wallach in a car and it doesn’t perform like somebody else’s car that he sits in. That’s what we always prided ourselves on is that, well, we tried to make it as good as we, as it could possibly be made. And we did lots of little things.

driving it easier. And we were the first ones to put on big intercoolers. I mean, we built special exhaust systems because Porsche one was made out of 303 stainless and they would crack and break and stuff like that. We made ours out of 400 series stainless because it doesn’t transfer as much heat.

Therefore you get more turbo action and, you know, little things like that. Equal length [00:26:00] pipes was the Porsche one was. Three into one into, you know, we felt that you had to not only outdrive them, but you had to outsmart them. Well, and the poor victim of that, he’s dead now, so he can’t come after me, but poor Bob Aiken, he spent.

Tons of money trying to get things done. There was always some screwball thing going on with his car. This is the 935, not when he got into the 956 or whatever it was. Anyway, that’s just one man’s opinion anyhow.

Crew Chief Eric: As you were coming up through your driving, and then you got onto the big stage on the IMSA and the Camel GT series, Did you have any coaches?

Did you have mentors? Did you have other drivers that you were just chasing them around and learning from them on the fly? Like, how did you develop yourself as a driver going from autocross and hill climb to pro racing?

Bob Garretson: Well, I think in all kinds of racing, the objective is the same thing. You’re trying to win.

You either teach yourself or you find out [00:27:00] somehow what to do. And I think that in my case, it was never driven a 935 until Sebring in 78. He got in the car and away we went. I don’t know, it just sort of came natural, I guess.

Crew Chief Eric: Were there any drivers that you looked up to? I mean, on that roster of names, when you look at those years specifically you race, you’ve got people like Chip Ganassi, you’ve got AJ Foyt, you’ve got David Hobbs, Hurley Haywood, Peter Gregg.

I mean, you were rubbing elbows with all sorts of famous drivers from that era. Were there guys that you were looking up to? Or that, again, you were chasing around the track trying to learn from them on the fly?

Bob Garretson: One of the guys that I thought was absolutely fantastic is Hurley Haywood. Yeah, I mean, you certainly looked up to guys like Wallach.

And I got to drive twice in the 935. I got to drive with Rick Mears and Johnny Rutherford. They were teammates at Watkins Glen two times.

Mike Carr: Did you run with any other indie winners? Yeah, right. I mean, you got Rahal,

Bob Garretson: Mears. Yeah. No, [00:28:00] those are the only ones. I didn’t drive with him, but Rolf Stamlin drove a couple of times with Barbara in the other car.

He was a guy that thought he was the greatest, you know. We were at Sebring one year, and my first wife was with me. Stamlin fancied himself as quite a tennis player. My wife was quite a tennis player too, so they went and played and she beat him. And you talk about a miserable guy for the next, seemed like the whole time from then on, but just a very interesting guy.

I couldn’t feel like we were on the same wavelength most of the time. Wallach was a nice guy. He’s quiet. You had to almost pull the words out of him. You know, it was a shame of what happened to him.

Crew Chief Eric: What about Mike’s number one guy, not Randy, but Al Holbert.

Bob Garretson: Yeah, Al was, he was great because here again, another guy that thought about things to do and didn’t just get in a car and drive.

I mean, he was involved in the car itself.

Mike Carr: [00:29:00] I’m from Doylestown and that’s where Al’s from and his father, Bob, they kind of had a big role in Porsche factory racing in America going all the way back. It was really fun to go to different tracks. This is how I know of you. Because you were racing against him at places that my family would visit with the Holbrook family.

The loss of Al was just huge, but ignoring that for the moment. Watching him race against you, watching you beat him, watching Randy Lanier beat him when he’s driving a factory sponsored 962.

Bob Garretson: I’d like to try driving one.

Mike Carr: It’s what engendered my love for this sport.

Bob Garretson: Well, one of the things about Porsche is that the Porsche world, you’ve got friends no matter where you go in the world.

I don’t know if any other car make has the camaraderie that the Porsche world has. You think about Germans being cold and hard and rigid and all this kind of stuff, yet the factory is open once you’ve like, I was [00:30:00] fortunate to work with them, but it’s a totally different atmosphere. I had a Ferrari for a while.

I used to run the Virginia city hill climb with it and nobody, unless you’re somebody or you got the latest, greatest thing, nobody really wants to talk to you. Porsches are not that way. It’s a different life. You try to explain that. Like my second wife, when we got married, she said, what the hell? You know, next thing you know, she’s immersed in this thing.

And it’s just unbelievable. Anyway.

Crew Chief Eric: This brings up a great question, Bob. So since you left racing, have you really left racing? Where does the story of Gerritsen Enterprises go? Is it still in continuation today? You mentioned the meal Amelia. Are you still up until this point? Are you have you been active in the racing community, even though not being on the big stage at him?

So,

Bob Garretson: no, no, I haven’t. I don’t know if you’re aware, but I did crash at Lamont 1st time. I race [00:31:00] there 4 o’clock in the morning 2 more laps to go on my. I’m going down the Mulsanne straight and come to the kink, which they don’t have anymore. All of a sudden the rear end starts to come out and you forget how fast you’re going and way overcorrected and it went the other way.

And of course I crashed into the barrier and the car flipped over. I counted seven times that we went over, but ended up on all four wheels. And even though he wasn’t a teammate. Brian Redmond stopped and asked if I was all right. And uh, yep. I don’t know if I’ve ever driven at Le Mans, but it’s quite an experience.

And the thing that will always be in the back of my mind is when it rains over there. You go flying down the Mulsanne Strait, we’re doing 200 miles an hour. Other cars are maybe doing 120, 140. You come across this cloud, and it looks like a heavy fog. You pray that the guy in the slow lane that you’re going to pass is [00:32:00] going to stay there.

I mean, you go into the cloud and you can’t see a thing until you come out the other side. And it’s quite an experience. I’ve managed to walk away. The hardest thing on the whole situation was getting out of the damn car because the doors wouldn’t open. I didn’t think that there was no windshield in the car.

I could have climbed out that way. Only the corner workers managed to bend the window frame. Down because, you know, we had to have nets on the windows because we were running into class so I could climb out through the window and didn’t get hurt at all after 81. I did. I think you did into some part of 83.

I drove Daytona in 82 and then 83. We converted the car 935 to basically a 934. They raced as a GTO car rather than a Group 5 car. I drove it a couple times, but just didn’t have any enthusiasm for [00:33:00] them.

Mike Carr: Are

Bob Garretson: you

Mike Carr: satisfied having left the arena when you did? You had had such success, and then you moved on.

Bob Garretson: Oh yeah, no, I mean, I quit on top and that was very satisfying and I, you know, I’m not sorry at all that I ever stopped. I tried to help various people along the way, just like I said, Brian Redman insisted that I prepare his Lola first of all. An English guy came over and became the crew chief finally.

But what broke that situation up was we took Lola T70 and put a 935 engine and gearbox in the car. Problem was we were running out of time. The car was supposed to debut at Le Mans. Well, we got to Le Mans and had never been on the track before, went out there and we couldn’t get any boost. It wasn’t getting to the engine.

The problem was is that the. Framework that supported the intercooler was not sturdy enough. So as the pressure [00:34:00] built up, it opened gaps in the gaskets. And so we started losing boots. So it never did run at Le Mans. And that was the straw that broke the camel’s back as far as me and Cookwood’s racing.

And so I had to go out on my own from there on. So that’s what happened.

Crew Chief Eric: The rest of the history of Gerritsen Enterprises. Is it still around? Does, did it continue on or did you close that chapter too?

Bob Garretson: No, what, what happened to Garrison Enterprises was I had sold my semiconductor business as a company that bought it, wanted me to stay with them and run the business.

Keep it going the way it was or expand whatever happened well i was still racing it was 81 or 82 i guess i still playing around stuff like that and these guys came to me and said look at we don’t like you running around the world doing all this stuff you’re supposed to be running this business i said well business is running i’ve run it the way i’ve run it all along what’s the big problem.[00:35:00]

And he said, well, if you don’t stop, you’re gone. I said, fine. Well, I’m gone because I had a lifestyle and that’s the way I wanted to live. What happened was, was I just said, okay, I’m gone. Take my money and run. And I went over and basically took the English office over and competed with the other companies because the EU had started then so we could supply from England, all the stuff that we used to have to have offices in.

Germany and France. So Garrison Enterprises was functioning. I’d come back three or four times a year or more and find out what’s happening and all those kinds of, well, I came back one trip and the assistant bookkeeper came to me and said, you better look at these things. We don’t have any cash.

Something’s wrong with the money situation. We have to do an investigation, find out that the head bookkeeper was embezzling money because she thought she was a professional bridge player and was gambling on bridge. And then the two brothers that were business partners said, [00:36:00] you know, you’re not here to guys and stuff like that.

Can we sell the business? They had a friend that had a Porsche customer who was a big banker and he wanted to buy the whole. To me having to come up and get us out of debt and all that kind of stuff. I said, you guys sell it. And I left my brother and I kept the building and they paid the rent on it.

When I left, I left my association with Garrison Enterprises. They made it run for a year and then went. So my brother and I sold the building to the Dotson dealership across the way and Garrison Enterprises was no more.

Crew Chief Eric: Knowing what you know now, looking back over your career, your wins, you know, all the people that you’ve met for young, aspiring racers.

That are coming up through the system now. Do you have any advice? Anything you can pass on to them? Words of wisdom? Anything you’d like to share?

Bob Garretson: Well, I think that the young kids today, the drivers are extremely talented, but I don’t think they have a [00:37:00] complete understanding of the mechanics of what’s going on.

And why they do things and why things happen when they do certain things and stuff like that. And I think that’s part of the stuff. I don’t think I have any talent compared to half the guys that I raced against, but I think that I was able to, some cases, I’ll think of them and stuff like that.

Mike Carr: Looking back over the course of your life and career and your racing experience and your success in business and, you know, the people that you’ve met and the interesting life that you’ve had.

Where does racing rank? I’ve

Bob Garretson: made great friends with a lot of people, and some people just unable to make friends with. They, you know, they thought, who’s this punk kid that thinks he’s a race car driver? I, I mean, I admit it, and I’m not the talent that half the guys I race against are, but the thing is that we manage to do what racing’s all about.

We manage to win and do things. So it seems like there’s more ego in things than there used to be. I don’t think that’s [00:38:00] true. I think there’s a, it’s just expressed differently. It

Mike Carr: seems like you got in and then you got out and you drove an epic car.

Bob Garretson: Absolutely.

Mike Carr: You did some amazing things with it. I don’t know how you walked away.

It answers some questions, it leaves more questions.

Crew Chief Eric: But you guys must have some more questions. Sure, Mike does. I don’t want to keep you up all night though, you know.

Mike Carr: I could talk to you for hours. It’s a real pleasure to talk to you. So thank you, sir.

Crew Chief Eric: I have to second Mike’s sentiments there. I mean, I can’t thank you enough for coming on here and sharing your journey into the sports car world, coming up the way you did, and then just gracefully exiting, as you said, at a high point in your career, having that win at Sebringham, the win at Daytona.

And it’s just like. Wow. That’s all I can, all I can keep thinking is, wow, but then you’ve done so many other cool things since then and worked on cool cars and made so many different lifelong friends between the Rahalls and the Redmans and all the other folks that you mentioned. I mean, it’s just, again, thank you.[00:39:00]

Bob, anything else before we let you go? Or Mike, any other questions you want to ask?

Mike Carr: I’m good.

Bob Garretson: Thank you. Well, if you think of anything you want to ask, don’t hesitate. Thank you so much, Bob. Well, you’re very welcome. I enjoyed it myself. Thanks, Bob. Take care.

Crew Chief Eric: This episode has been brought to you in part by the Exotic Car Marketplace.

Founded by BrakeFix guest William Ross, he provides private client services to discreet Ferrari and Porsche buyers as well as sellers. With experience and access to the most desired vehicles in the marketplace, William can source the perfect Porsche or Ferrari you’ve been looking for. To learn more, be sure to check out www.

exoticcarmarketplace. com. Additionally, this episode was supported by the International Motor Racing Research Center in Watkins Glen, who provided the factual data as well as racing results and photographs from their archives, which can be seen in the follow on article alongside this episode. You can learn more about the IMRRC by visiting www.

racingarchives. org.[00:40:00]

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www. gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Instagram Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.

org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization. And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes like this one at no charge. As a loyal listener, please consider subscribing to our Patreon for bonus and behind the scenes content, extra goodies, and GTM swag.

For as little as 2 and 50 cents a month, you can keep our developers, writers, editors, casters, and other volunteers [00:41:00] fed on their strict diet of fig Newtons, gummy bears, and monster. Consider signing up for Patreon today at www. patreon. com forward slash GT motorsports, and remember without fans, supporters, and members like you.

None of this would be possible.

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

• 00:00 Introduction to BreakFix Podcast
• 01:29 Bob Garretson’s Early Life and Racing Beginnings
• 04:12 Career Highlights and Challenges
• 10:55 Garretson Enterprises and Racing Ventures
• 14:41 The Iconic Apple Car and Racing Stories
• 17:38 Reflections on the Porsche 935
• 19:50 Racing Partnerships and Personal Connections
• 21:48 Memorable Racing Moments with Bobby Rahal
• 23:01 Racing Legends and Their Stories
• 24:22 The Competitive Spirit of the 80s Racing Scene
• 25:23 Innovations and Technical Insights
• 30:34 Transitioning from Racing to Business
• 36:36 Reflecting on a Racing Career
• 38:29 Closing Thoughts and Farewell

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