MIE Racing

David L. Middleton - Founder & CEO for MIE Racing

Middleton Innovative Education (aka MIE pronounced like pie) is looking to revolutionize the way we teach and engage students in science, technology, engineering and math or STEM. Our programs transform the eSports concept of gaming into a true STEM learning model.

Contact: David L. Middleton at david@mie-racing.com | N/A | Visit Online!

          

• Origin Story / Mission – How did you get a love of motorsports & cars / engineering?
• How do you think MIE can help getting youth as fans of motorsports and/or into careers in motorsports? Is there a gateway into Formula SAE?
• What grade levels does this apply to? K-8, High Schoolers
• Females in Motorsports + STEM? How do we recruit/attract more into both? Does MIE help with this?
• It’s often overlooked by most people that use cars every day, there’s a lot that goes into them from engineering to chemistry, physics, aerodynamics, thermal dynamics, even artistry (interior/exterior design) so many different aspects – the list goes on and on. What is the curriculum like?  Which parts is MIE focusing on? How are simulators being used as teaching tools? Driving physics, car setup?
• What types of platforms and tools are being used for the curriculum? (iRacing? F1, ACC, others?) What do you think about the future of sim and sim racing?
• You consult with clients on SIM rigs? We have a lot of SIM racers in the group, what would you recommend to be competitive for someone racing for more than fun? (budget, middle of road, money no object).

and much, much more!

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Brake fix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all over the auto sphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors, designers, and everything in between. Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrol heads that wonder, how did they get that job or become that person?

The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.

So. Tonight we’re going to talk about my. Wait, did you say pie? Nope, M I E, my. Middleton Innovative Education, a new startup in the world of education looking to revolutionize the way we teach and engage students in science, technology, engineering, and math, also known as STEM.

Crew Chief Eric: And I see that we have David Middleton, CEO and founder of My, on break fix with us tonight to explain how it all works.

So welcome to the show, David.

David L. Middleton: You’re welcome. Thank you guys for having me. I’m blessed to be here.

Crew Chief Eric: We were very grateful to have one of our previous [00:01:00] guests who’s been on two episodes now of Break Fix. Phil Engels introduced us virtually and brought to our attention the idea of Mai. So first question as always.

Let’s talk about the origin story. Let’s talk about the mission. Tell us what my is all about and how it got started.

David L. Middleton: Sure. So we had other names and then somebody who was kind of counseling us, he said, how about using your initials and making a company? So it’s Middleton Innovative Education. My like pie.

And the way the mission got started is I’m by background automotive engineer. I had been working abroad many years, not only development, but in motorsports. And I got to a point where I’m looking around the paddocks. I’m looking around a lot of the meetings I’m in, and I’m wondering where are all the Americans?

And it started to bother me. And, and I talked to my wife, always wanted to give back. So what I started doing when I was abroad is I started actually reaching out to military families. And bringing them out to the track that I was at, I used to be a race engineer at the [00:02:00] Nürburgring. So I would bring out military families out there and tell them, Hey, I don’t know how long I’m going to be doing this, but bring your son, bring your daughter, experience the paddock.

And they were having good times. And then I started talking to my wife more in depth about, well, what’s the future when we either transition back to the stage or what’s the next step? So we talked about it some more. And then I reached out to a lot of my friends. I’m originally from New York city. And I have a lot of friends who were either born in the Dominican Republic or in the Caribbean and, and they’re all car guys, but I’m the only one who went on to be an engineer.

And I was asking them, what’s the disconnect? They told me, well, you’re fortunate. You had two parents who were in education. They told you, you can do whatever you want to do. They were like, our parents told us survive. So, and they said, and nobody ever told us we could do this. They said, you were the crazy guy reading magazines, telling us you do these things.

And what really hit me was one of my friend’s brothers. He told me, you know, he said, Dave, you got to understand you’re like the hope of the block. He said, every time you’re sending us pictures of the Nürburgring [00:03:00] and videos and all this, you’re giving hope to us. And I thought to myself, well, something has to change.

I said, well, what’s going on in industry right now? And I feel that. There’s a lot of young people who really love cars, but there’s a disconnect of how to turn that love into an actual career and America needs great engineers. We need great mechanics. We need great technicians using the knowledge I have, but also the fact that I started doing not only racing, but sim racing.

I said, how can I combine this in a meaningful way? And I think some of the problem with a lot of, a lot of STEM programs is they give these kids good exercises and things like that, but it doesn’t sink in. So I thought long and hard about how do I combine STEM education, motorsports, that love into a meaningful program.

Crew Chief Eric: All I got to say right now is wow. And we got a lot of stuff to unpack. So before we dive a little deeper into mine, I can see it on Brad’s face right now. We got to talk about this automotive engineer and the Nürburgring, [00:04:00] because my eyes are as big as my head right now. Automotive engineering, did you start with like, let’s say at Ford Aerospace, which was like where everybody went to in my generation or somewhere else?

Were you fortunate and went the way of, you know, McLaren through BAE or something like that? And how did you end up at the Nürburgring? So let’s, let’s unfold that a little bit.

David L. Middleton: I went a totally opposite route than anybody else. I went, I went to a really good school, studied physics. I told my advisor that I wanted to do research and development of engines.

And this came from a love I’ve had a Porsche since nine years old. I saw a commercial stuck with me. I told my dad, Hey, I want you to teach me how to drive manual because one day I’m going to own a Porsche. And he kind of stared at me cause you know, my parents are educators and no one really had a Porsche around.

And he said, okay. And he said, he’s going to pass, but I kept bugging him. So he started teaching me how to drive and then I asked how to drive manual, but this love of cars was basically self inflicted. I’m reading everything. I’m chasing [00:05:00] things down. My parents didn’t know what to do exactly. So they put me in every engineering program, summer program.

I did three years at Cornell during high school.

Crew Chief Brad: Wow.

David L. Middleton: Yeah. And I did all these programs and it led to me going to a very good university and studying physics. Well, I finished my physics degree and I’m no closer to the automotive industry. My wonderful advisor didn’t tell me that. Right. He said, Oh, you get a degree in physics and trust me, I suffered getting through physics.

But I was like, well, what do I do now? So I call up Audi and BMW and Porsche. And back in those days, you know, you had to fight to get somebody on the phone. And they said, what do you want to do, young man? I said, well, I want to do research and development of engines for your company. And they said, in America, I said, well.

If that’s not possible where they said, Germany, he said, if you want to do that, you gotta go to Germany. And I said, all right, I will. And I don’t think anybody believed me, you know, like I got a lot of pauses on the phone, like, okay, well, long story short, I started working for a startup. I’m no closer to the industry.

And I just, from one day to the next, I come [00:06:00] out of a meeting and I tell somebody I’m done. I was like, that’s it. I’m getting up and I’m moving to Germany. Within two months, I sold everything I had. I took the little money I had and I got up and I moved to the Frankfurt mines area. What I did for the next few months is I went to every single car show.

I went to the international auto show at Frankfurt. I met with people such as AC Schnitzer and Brabus and, and I was very fortunate. I hustled really hard, but it got to a point where people were saying, Hey, well, you’re very well educated, but, uh, you do not know what it takes to work in Germany. That was a shock.

Right. Because I paid a lot of money for this great education. And here I am, my education doesn’t really mean anything to them because they’ve got their own universities. They got their own ways of doing stuff. And I remember talking to the AC snitcher guys and they said, do you realize how many engineers we have on staff?

He said, we’re such a small team, man. Like my team is six. And you want to be here? And I said, yes, I do. I want to be there. And they were kind of taken aback at this [00:07:00] brash American and not so much that I was brash, but for the point of they didn’t find a lot of Americans who would come over with this attitude of I’m going to get in.

I’m going to be here. I want to learn from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Persistence. Persistence.

David L. Middleton: Yeah. So that was refreshing. So they pointed me in, in, in some directions. It got to a point where I had to take on other jobs to make sure I stayed alive. Of what I knew about Germans and started learning the language, I said, All right, if I’m trying to get in here and study some more, if I don’t have ones and twos, which is a German A and B, then I’m going to sit down, HR department, and they’re going to say to me, Ah, Herr Middleton, I see that you want to work for Porsche.

But you did not get ones and twos, you know, like, you know, why, if you really want to be here, why did you not do well enough and to an American? We’re like, well, look, I’m self supported. I had to learn the language. There’s a lot of things I had to go through, but to a German, it’s a numbers game. It’s like, well, if you really want it.

You will get it. So I said, let me be smart here. I found a good program in [00:08:00] South Carolina, connected to BMW. I got in and I got another degree and my parents were like, what, what is this guy thinking about? Well, while I was doing that, I had an internship or I got a call from a good advisor this time. And he told me, Hey, there’s an internship program in Esslingen.

You should do it. We think it’d be great for your career. I was actually on the tennis court. They called me off. I go down to the office. Sweaty and smelly and there’s these two Germans sitting there and they start talking to me in German and they were surprised at how good my German was and the guy answers me and says, Hey, look, here’s someone we want for this program because we can’t find Americans who go over and want to do this program without going into too much detail.

I do this program and the things that I did in this program. I got to go on Mercedes test track. I got to go to Audi’s factory where they make the R8. I got to go to Vizac and get on the test track. A lot of students were able to do this too. Thank you. But we had some American guys and we’re like overslept some of these events.

And I tried to explain to them. I said, you could buy 10 cup cars [00:09:00] and you may never, ever get to Vizac. Like, you don’t understand, like that’s something special, man. You need to appreciate it. But I was totally locked in. I finished my schooling. I made the right connections. I started applying for OEMs, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, and I knew a couple of Germans in America, and they said, well, have you considered Bosch?

And I said, um, yeah, a little bit. So I said, no, not, not the sister, not the big sister company. There’s a daughter company, Bosch Engineering. They do ECU development. They do engine develop. That’s where the motorsports department is. And after several interviews and fighting to knock the door in a little bit and some connections, yeah, I became an engineer there.

Wow. So that’s how I got to Germany. Very, I guess, unusual. I didn’t go from Michigan to Germany. I went in directly as a German engineer. I had a German contract. I ended up getting a German Lebenslauf, which is like basically the work permit. I had to, of course, make a way, but, but yeah, I went straight in because [00:10:00] My thinking was, if I had worked for BMW in North America and got settled in, I would have wanted to go over, right?

But once I got settled and if I had kids or if I got married, you know, it’s just like a lot harder to transition. But this way I said, Hey, I’m just going over. Luckily, the woman I married, she, she also was interested in going to Germany. She had lived there previously too, and she already had things set up.

So we both went over and yeah, I worked for Bosch engineering. And while I’m working there. I had a French intern and the intern was, uh, very nice to me and we started talking and he said, Hey, I see you got a big interest in cars because I used to have stacks of magazines, you know, and I used to have actually F1 tracks, like pasted to my desk, you know, because the group I was in, there weren’t a lot of car guys in my particular group, but the surrounding groups like Aston Martin.

It’s

Crew Chief Eric: funny how that always happens, right? You get into these industries. That are making products for let’s say a consumer group like us petrol heads, and they have no love towards what it is that they’re [00:11:00] doing and I mean that in a in a philosophical way, not necessarily they probably nerd out on what they do and they love it, but it’s like, yeah, I’m not a car guy, but I do car things.

I know a lot of people like that. I’m like, My mind, I’m like, this does not compute. This does not make any sense at all. Do what you love. Right. But I guess we’re not always able to do exactly that, but it sounds like you are. So please continue.

David L. Middleton: Yeah. It kind of blew my mind because the surrounding groups, I worked for JLR and the surrounding groups, the Ferrari group, the Aston Martin group, the McLaren group, the Porsche group.

I mean, these guys are like petrol heads, right? And I’ll give you an example. Well, we developed the 918 with Porsche and they brought out the 918, I think about a year before it launched. And it was just sitting out there, man. My eyes are as big as saucers. Cause we had to walk past the canteen and sitting there and Porsche execs were there.

So I go into my group, man, 918 is there like, let’s go see it. And a couple of guys were like, eh, they like shrugged their shoulders.

Crew Chief Eric: Right.

David L. Middleton: And that’s not me, man. I think I was, I was told anything that came through the group. [00:12:00] We had a secret garage that had, I mean, tons of things from manufacturers, secret development.

I mean, we had Bugattis that were torn apart. Like it was just, it was basically everything I would ever dreamed of at a company. But I have this French engineer and he goes, why aren’t you in the carding group? I was like, I didn’t even know it existed. Come out. So I came out and I was thinking to myself, all right, I mean, I should be okay.

I know how to drive. Well, I learned very quickly. I didn’t know how to drive because these guys have been doing it and girls have been doing it since 10, 11, 12. And through that. I stayed and I fought with them. And when I, when I started the carding group, I think I was outside of the top 60 by the time I finished, I was within the top 15.

And from there I made connections. And then people were like, Hey, we do track days, started doing track days. Hey, we go to the Nurburgring, started visiting the Nurburgring. And when I got to the Nurburgring, I knew of the Nurburgring, but I didn’t really know the Nurburgring as you guys can attest to. I knew of it, but I get there and the atmosphere is just, there’s nothing like that on the [00:13:00] planet, especially if you’re a motorsports person.

So I said, all right, I want some experience. So I started walking up, down the garage and saying, Hey, you know, in German course. I’m an engineer. I work for Bosch and I want to leverage whatever little I know and be a race engineer. A lot of the teams were shocked that I spoke German because they asked me in German, where are you from?

And I’d say USA and they’d be like, what? They’re like, you’re not from Cameroon. You’re not from Nigeria. Like, no, I’m from the USA, you know, we can actually speak other languages. But I eventually got in with a team and that started my motorsports career. And that was an eye opener. I did three years in the VLN series.

I did three years as a, uh, race engineer for the 24 hours.

Crew Chief Eric: Wow.

David L. Middleton: And that led to other stuff. I mean, I attended 24 hours of spa. I attended Le Mans. I got to know a guy. He was the director of composites for Porsche LMP1. And we became friends and we met at Lamont. So if you can imagine, I’m going through all this and I’m having the time of my life and to kind of [00:14:00] give that up and come back to America, I really had to have a vision of like, man, I really want to give back to America because I’m going to be honest with you, man.

I was very happy, you know, like a weekend, somebody could call me and say, hey, come down to Imola. Let’s do this. Or Hey, drive this. Or Hey, I got, I bought this new Lotus. Can you help me shake it down? I mean, I was having the time of my life, but at the end of the day, I said, well, what do I want to do? Do I just want to gain all this knowledge and just stay out here and, and then nothing changes.

But I felt my path, it was a very long bridge from getting A to B. And there are young men and young women out there who love this industry, who don’t know how to get into it. And I wanted to change that from the knowledge I’ve learned from the contacts I’ve made. I want to make sure that their path is not so long and they can say, well, look, I love this.

This is what I want to do. How do I do this? I live in Georgia. Lanier Technical is near and they’ve got a great motorsports program. From what I’ve heard, I’ve met so many kids here who don’t even know that exist. What’s the disconnect? What’s the problem? How can I solve it? Working over there and being over there that led to the Nürburgring, which just led to a [00:15:00] baptism in motorsports that I cannot explain.

And it was tough. And the team spoke 90 percent German. But, but I made it through and I fought with those guys and I think they, they liked the fact that I wouldn’t give up and that I wanted to be there and they said this guy could do whatever he wants, you know, but here he is on his weekends, speaking of foreign language, hanging out with us, learning German culture, drinking their beer, sitting with the mechanics, having them explain stuff to me and the way they did it because it was foreign to me, me explaining what I’m seeing, learning from other people.

And yeah, man, the Nürburgring is, it’s hard to put it in words, but I’ll just say that if you ever have the chance to go, you should. And that changed my dad’s mind on motorsports. He had no clue about it. He couldn’t understand my passion, but when I took him to the Nürburgring, I remember him sitting there and just taking it all in.

And he comes to me and he goes, Hey, I’m so sorry that if I knew this existed, I would have put you in carding. I would have put you in racing. I would have done something. He said, but I had no clue. He said, I, he said, I’m at this. And this is like, feels like the Mecca of motorsports. And he said, everybody’s friendly.

Everybody’s [00:16:00] talking. People are, people don’t care where I’m from. He said, I just, I feel at home here. And he said, I wish I knew that this existed before.

Crew Chief Eric: Beauty of motorsport. And if I haven’t said it a hundred times already in this episode of people, I’m sure people are taking shots as they’re listening.

I’m going to say it again. Wow. And I think I’ve just lived out vicariously all of my childhood fantasies in the last 15 minutes that you’ve told that story. Absolutely amazing. I mean, absolutely astounding the things you talk about. So I got to ask some questions. I think Brad’s got a couple as well. So let’s rewind a little bit and go back.

Cause you said one day I’m going to drive a Porsche or I’m going to own a Porsche. So what was The first car you drove or first car you had, was it stateside? And what did you get when you went to Germany? Let’s start there before I continue kind of pulling this thread a little bit.

David L. Middleton: Sure. The first car I had was a 19, I think it was a 1986 or 1985 Volkswagen GTI.

Crew Chief Eric: Mk2 baby. All right.

David L. Middleton: Everybody starts with a Volkswagen.

Crew Chief Eric: I don’t know how that happens on this show. It just does, [00:17:00] you know.

David L. Middleton: If you want to hear kind of a crazy story, there was some upperclassmen and they had this car wasn’t getting used. They passed it down to freshmen named, I’ll never forget Dennis.

Dennis didn’t use this car, sat there for a year and I kept saying, Dennis, sell me the car. Dennis, sell me the car. Well, he finally sells it to me for a dollar, right? I go to the car. And it’s got a club on it. And I said, Dennis, where’s the key? He didn’t know. Now, now mind you, we’re college, we’re not wealthy.

And then I call a locksmith. The guy tells me it was going to be what, 150, 200 to get the club off. We ended up stealing liquid nitrogen,

Crew Chief Eric: freezing it off

David L. Middleton: out of the science lab and freezing it late at night, covering the steering wheel with a, you know, with a towel. Cause someone suggested like sawing the steering wheel.

I said, heck no. So we stole liquid nitrogen. So if anybody was missing liquid nitrogen back then, I’m sorry. We froze the lock, we broke it, and we got it off. But we didn’t think because, you know, it’s like five, six black guys late at night, freezing liquid nitrogen, you know, like luckily the cops didn’t come because that probably the optics didn’t look so good.[00:18:00]

But yeah, that was my first car and I, I drove that thing. And drove it and drove it. And then one of the cylinders eventually went two years later. So

Crew Chief Eric: eight valve or 16 valve.

David L. Middleton: Mine was 16 valve.

Crew Chief Eric: They’re very nice. And so when you got to Germany, what did you get? Cause over there you have a larger, let’s call it smorgasbord of things you can choose from that we don’t get, you know, all the fun stuff.

David L. Middleton: Yes. I got a manual E90. Oh,

Crew Chief Eric: nice.

David L. Middleton: That’s what I got. And then I got a E36 track car that was prepared by a guy who was the chief Audi mechanic for years. And he actually did the Nürburgring.

Crew Chief Eric: That, that’s like an oxymoron there. Chief Audi mechanic and he’s got a BMW. How does that work? Oh man,

David L. Middleton: this guy used to build Minis, BMWs, all these things and, and he used to keep them in his garage and then sell them.

Within a month, he’d sell them. So that was my first track car, the E36.

Crew Chief Eric: Did you end up with a Porsche?

David L. Middleton: I did.

Crew Chief Eric: Was there a first one or is there only one?

David L. Middleton: There’s only been one. Okay. The second one’s going to be coming soon. Hopefully. Uh, 997 Gen 2 [00:19:00] 2011 white. I actually got PDK, but I left foot brake the whole time and drove it like a Formula One car.

So

Crew Chief Eric: excellent. My last question before we transition and continue talking about what you’re doing now and motorsport community is since you were on the ring. So often, did you get to meet or interact with Sabine Schmidt?

David L. Middleton: You just stole my question. So

Crew Chief Brad: we inquire your minds want to know though.

David L. Middleton: Frigidelli was maybe 15, 16 garages away from us.

I did meet her. I used to go in and out of her garage a lot. And then RSR. If you ever heard of RSR Nurburgring, well, they run a lot of drivers, so I got to know their drivers. They know Sabine, so we’d be at stuff and we’d cross paths. So I didn’t have like a deep, deep conversation with her, but she definitely knew who I was.

I was always hanging out in the garage, and there’s actually an American over there who I think still does the VLN series named John, who was driving Porsches at one time, and Sabine was his driver for a couple of the VLNs, so yes. I did. Never got her to take me out on [00:20:00] the ring. That would have been awesome.

Crew Chief Eric: I know, right? But she would have only done it in a Ford Transit van though, you know?

David L. Middleton: Hey, whatever. It could be a shopping cart, you know? It’s always fun.

Crew Chief Eric: Speaking of transit vans, you ever take the ring taxi?

David L. Middleton: I have not. I have not. Are they as

Crew Chief Eric: nuts as they look on the videos?

David L. Middleton: They are. Yes, they are. They absolutely are.

Crew Chief Eric: All right. So let’s get serious for a moment.

Crew Chief Brad: So getting involved, why don’t you tell us about, uh, the, the, the, my program. Yeah. How you developed it.

David L. Middleton: I started sim racing about 10, 11 years ago, introduced by all these crazy French guys. They invited me over to their house and every single one of them had a simulator.

You know, the foldable play seat with a Logitech and they asked me if I had one. Are they like, do you SIM? Do you, do you play racing games? I said, yeah, I play Gran Turismo. And they’re like, what do you use? I said, my controller. And they kind of laughed me, you know, out of the room. And they were like, why don’t you have a simulator?

And I was like, I don’t even really know what one of those are. I sat down and I was amazed. I was like, this is real driving. Like this is, this is unbelievable. Well, it didn’t take long before [00:21:00] I told my wife, like, Hey, I would like to buy a simulator. I actually stepped up. I didn’t get Logitech. I actually went to Thrustmaster and back then Thrustmaster was quite expensive, but I started simming wanted to be better than them, or I wanted to be comparable.

And a lot of these guys were like really super quick, you know, for being engineers. They they’re, they’re quite quick. And some of them even did amateur racing. So I got the simulator and the more I’m driving it, the more I saw that there’s applications to it. I would get people who say, I don’t know how to set up a car.

How do I do that? I’m in SIM, or I don’t know what the, Brad’s pointing at himself. Or what effect does ride height have? How do I find the rear, you know, rear wing angle? And how does that affect the tire temperatures? And there was a lot of information on forums, but I realized like, man, there is some principles that can be applied to learning and if young kids are already racing or they’re doing video games, this is a great way to get them into the industry and see that the math and science that [00:22:00] they’re learning in school can actually be applied in the real world.

And in sim, when we made the decision that I wasn’t going to go back into industry and I just started full time and I started writing out a curriculum. I’ve written the whole STEM curriculum. I’ve, I’ve used my experience in motorsports. My experience in sim racing, then also my experience in industry to make a, just a curriculum that gels together.

So I have it very tailored, but also with the, with the mindset that you’re going to get some kids. We don’t know anything about racing, anything about driving. So it’s video based. You’re also getting tested, but everything you do is applied to your, your SIM exercises and just to give it in more in depth, if you don’t mind.

So what we were pitching and we were first of all, starting off with schools and what we were trying to get schools to do were to bring in a minimum of four simulators and per simulator, there’d be. Three to five kids, but every kid has a specific role. So Brad, I don’t know if you like arrow, you’re saying that I don’t know about the [00:23:00] theoretical grip, theoretical grip.

All right. But maybe, maybe you don’t, maybe you like arrow. Maybe you don’t. Right. But you would have a job, whether it’s aerodynamics, whether it’s the suspension engineer, whether it’s the race engineer. And we also added management because I want the kids to understand that racing doesn’t just happen in a vacuum, right?

You need somebody to pay the bills. You need sponsorship. So there is one person who by the end of these 18 weeks has to write a fictional paper. on funding and say, this is what we did. Good. This is where we need help at and pick companies and write whether it’s a work of fiction, but it has to sound professional and that’s her role.

And the person who’s responsible for that, that’s his or her job throughout the season, but they also do the same exercises. They also do some of the tuning and everything. So you function together as a race team. You will compete against your other fellow classmates. As teams and in between these 18 weeks, I have like a practice race one practice race to practice [00:24:00] race three and then at the end of the 18th is the final race, which you hopefully in theory, you know, race for scholarships.

That’s what we’re trying to do. So not only do you have your job and your role of what you have to tune, when you do your sim exercises together as a group, you’ve got to function as a team. And I think that’s a way to build communication. That’s a way to build collaboration, but also it’s a way for students to understand responsibility.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. And, you know, there’s a lot to what you’re talking about there that I think is often overlooked. You’ve got chemistry, you’ve got physics, you’ve got engineering, you’ve got aerodynamics, thermal dynamics, you even got artistry when it comes to design interior exterior. And to your point, when you bring motorsport into the equation, it gets easy.

astronomically more complicated, right? Because you have the competition factory of the management factor, the budget, the financing, the sponsorship, all of that. So I think what you’re doing, you know, even on a, on a smaller scale to represent the real world is, is great. And it gives these kids what I think is lacking in school sometimes, which is the real world aspect to all of [00:25:00] it.

Let’s say Brad went through it in his background in finance. You go through these accounting classes and you’re like. These use cases are nothing like they are when I am going to end up in the real world, right? It’s like, what does this have to do with anything? So to your point, you’re bringing it all together and really grasping that.

I guess what we used to call that Athenian mentality to education, which is to broader reaching and fuller encompassing of all the different aspects of something, an object, whatever it is that you’re learning or, or that discipline to make you more well rounded as a student. Right? So I really applaud you for that.

So how are you relating all of this or making it make sense? Are you keeping it at a foundational level so that at least the principles are absorbed?

David L. Middleton: So first of all, I guess the program right now is tailored towards high school students. I’m keeping him at a introductory level, but I’m applying things from the real world and then showing them how it works in sim.

So I’ll give you an example. Thermodynamics. I had a carding kid tell me that he sucks at math. And [00:26:00] I said, I said, yeah, James, why would you say that? Well, because you know, it’s just hard and I don’t like it. And I said, James, you do carding, right? What do you do when the temperature is hot to your tires?

Well, I let some of the air out. I said, why? Well, because they overheat and the tires don’t feel, you know, if they overheat and you lose grip. I said, what do you do when it’s cold out? He said, I put more air in. I said, James, it’s basic thermodynamics, right? I said, pressure, volume, temperature, and the relation.

And how I do that in my with my is that I teach them that principle, the relationship between pressure, volume, temperature. I teach them the formula. I show, you know, P1 over P2 equals T1 over T2 and volume. I show them all that. They actually have to do an example where they have to figure out the values.

When it comes to the SIM side, what I do for their SIM task is I take them to Texas Motor Speedway. in July. I give them a certain set of tire pressures and I tell them to do five laps. Texas, July, temperatures go through the roof. So here they see it applied. And I say, okay, we’re gonna go back to Texas Motor [00:27:00] Speedway in December, do the same thing, give ’em the same exact pressures, do five, eight laps, and they’ll see that the temperature doesn’t come out.

Now you’ve learned the relationship between pressure, volume, and temperature, and you’ve seen it all right, we’re gonna go back to Texas. I’m gonna give you uneven pressures ’cause it’s an oval and, and s slammed it. Oval. What do you think the, the pressures are gonna be? And, and so. That’s what I do. I do things like that.

So it’s

Crew Chief Eric: applied physics and applied thermodynamics and that it’s, and that’s good applied

David L. Middleton: thermodynamics.

Crew Chief Eric: I guess I have to ask the question on the behalf of everybody else, what platform are you on? Are you using iRacing for this or something else?

David L. Middleton: I’m using something else. Eventually, we’d like to make a iRacing platform, but as we all know from using iRacing, what I’m trying to do is get this out to, to the general public.

All right. There’s a lot of carding kids. They’re using iRacing. That’s great. I bring this to certain areas. And the kids could do our program. And then I’m like, Hey, you like the program so much go home and practice. Well, let’s see. Now you’re telling somebody’s parent, please let my son or daughter buy a gaming computer.

A rig and all this. [00:28:00] And I picked a game that is cross platformed on purpose. It’s not exactly, I don’t think it’s the best game dynamically, but it fits the bill for several reasons. So what I’m using is Project Cars 2 currently. Okay.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay.

David L. Middleton: And what I like about Project Cars 2, well, it’s on PC, Xbox, PlayStation.

Right now, the price is very cheap. You’re doing it in school, you already got a PlayStation or Xbox at home. I can convince your parents to buy a 100 wheel, you put it on your desk, plug it into your PlayStation, go practice. And I can’t do that with iRacing. The other thing I like about Project Cars 2 is that the graphic user interface is easier to understand than iRacing.

No offense, iRacing, but yeah, I wish that would change. Another thing, weather in the real world, right? I was, I was at VIR over the weekend. We had a half dry, half wet session. I can’t really do that in iRacing. So I had to find a platform that could do all these things. And What I’m trying to do with the program is not just have one year, I’m trying to have four years consecutively.

And [00:29:00] every year you’re going to do a different challenge. Year one, we may do GT4. Year two, maybe GT3 with a weather change. Year three might be Indy or LMP1. But year four, I’m saving for Formula One because I want kids to come back. And, and what’s great about it is if you were the suspension engineer and you don’t like it, it’s not for me.

I want to be the guy who’s the race engineer. I want to do something different. Well, you have the option to change every year, but if you love suspensions and you say, Hey, I love this. I can’t wait to, to work on a suspension and GT four to GT three or LMP one to GT three, see what the difference is. You can say, I opt to stay in my role.

So yeah, that’s one of the reasons that I decided to use Project Cars 2. But, going forward, I am going to have to develop something for iRacing, because I have a ton of cart parents and a ton of cart kids asking me. And then also, as you guys know, ACC is really making a big splash. It’s also a great game.

And a set of Corsa 2 is coming out soon. So hopefully those guys will get it right, that’s the goal, but right now it’s Project [00:30:00] Cars 2 only, and I think it’s just the best balance.

Crew Chief Eric: And I would agree with you, because I have used Project Cars 2 and I do like it, I’m one of few in our VRL that does, and you know, it was available for free for a while there, so it made it even more palatable.

The one thing I think is interesting that that’s the choice you made is if you are a gamer, like, you know, Brad and I am, even though he claims he’s not you, if you look at its lineage, there’s like certain families of racing games that they’ve all kind of stemmed from. So you’ve got Forza, which was built from the ground up.

You’ve got Gran Turismo. That’s always been its own thing. I racing came out or whatever, but then there was this pocket of games that came out of the SIM bin. Lineage, right. Where you had like things like GTR, GTR two, and, um, similar to like Toka and all those all came out of that family tree and project cars is in a similar vein now.

Now they’re owned by code masters. Right. So it’s all part of that. That bigger

David L. Middleton: happen.

Crew Chief Eric: Yeah. Well, I mean, and that’s the other, that’s the other big. family, right? As if you’re part of [00:31:00] the code masters, ego engine and all those physics engines that they developed and all that kind of stuff. But what I find interesting about the choice of projects cars to is yes, it’s a little older, but it does have some redeeming features in it.

Like you said, variable weather conditions. It also has a race manager. Feature and race engineer feature in there where you can interact with the race engineer and he’ll tell you things about the car as you’re driving it. You can do all these changes back and forth. So I think that’s kind of cool. I want to get your feelings on project cars three and why not pursue that or maybe something like Forza, which has a huge amount of tunability in its physics engine.

David L. Middleton: You’re going to get me in trouble with the project cars three question.

Crew Chief Eric: I got to ask, I sunk money into it as well. So.

Crew Chief Brad: I did too. I

Crew Chief Eric: like it. I’m just going to say straight up. I wrote an article, you know, singing its praises. I think it has a lot of potential. They continue to update it. It has been getting better since launch full disclaimer.

David L. Middleton: Yeah. Project cars three, the way they were developing it, what [00:32:00] they promised and what got delivered was kind of a turnoff to me, the fact that tire wear. Wasn’t an option. I had to pick a game where I could feel that there was some longevity and I just didn’t feel that project three matched up to how my program worked.

I wanted it to trust me. I really wanted it to. In fact, we had a contact, uh, that we were trying to, to get project cars to come on board, especially. That it didn’t really sell well in America. And I said, Hey, this is a way to get your product out. And the guy was all for it. But the guy who, who was actually all for it, he ended up leaving the company.

Uh, as far as Forza, I think it’s a matter of, I started down the project cars to road and I’m also a PlayStation guy. So I hope that’ll do it. That’ll do it. I’ve had PlayStation 2, 3, 4, and getting 5 eventually. Forza was, I would have to go out and buy an Xbox I had my PlayStation hanging around here. I had Project Cars 1 on PlayStation.

That’s one of the reasons.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, for many of us, we started with Gran Turismo. I mean, for the younger, some of us started with like, you know, [00:33:00] RC Pro Am and Rad Racer and Pole Position and stuff like that. You know, I’m dating myself now. You know, for those of us that still… It’s the godfather of a lot of these, but on the same token, I can’t wait 10 years for the next version of Gran Turismo to come out.

Now with Forza 8, Forza Motorsport being delayed yet again, I’m like, ah, whatever, you know, I’m not rushing to get a Series X either. I think it’s interesting the choices you made. I understand why, especially having played, and I’ve played so many racing video games. Not even funny at this point, but I will say this about Project Cars 3 and to your point about what they promised and what they delivered, I think because it was in the auspices of the merger between Codemasters and, uh,

David L. Middleton: thank

Crew Chief Eric: you, Slightly Mad Studios, that what we ended up with was Grid.

With the madness engine in it, which is not necessarily a bad compromise. We got all the awesome UI from Codemasters and the soundtrack and the graphics. It needs some refinement. That’s for sure. But we’ll, we’ll save that for another day.

David L. Middleton: Another thing too, is there’s very few [00:34:00] racing games that are on PC, Xbox.

That’s true. Project Cars is one of them. Assetto Corsa is the other. That’s about it, you know? I mean, I like Gran Turismo. Actually, they do some great things. I don’t particularly always love the racing in Gran Turismo. But when you get your licenses, how they show you like the video of how to do it and all this.

I mean, Gran Turismo could be a great learning tool. But it’s not on the Xbox. So you got all these young people who like the Xbox and they’re not going to go out of their way. To get grant charisma when they got four. So I had to find the balance and that’s really what it came to. It was like trying to find the perfect balance.

I knew I couldn’t satisfy everybody, but that’s also why down the road, we’re going to have more specialized, you know, it doesn’t take much to change. A few things that make it specifically for one game, it just takes,

Crew Chief Eric: and in your case, this allows you to also do this offline as well, or call it local LAN party, like in our old days, right.

Versus iRacing, you have to be connected to the servers and make it work and all that kind of fun stuff. So going back to that episode we did last year with Jericho from [00:35:00] Twitch, who some of you may know as Tucker, you know, he’s into the gaming world. He’s, he’s at the. front end of Twitch when it was, you know, not as popular it is today and things like that, he’s also the host of Amazon’s chasing the crown, you know, things of that nature.

So we had him on and we talked about, you know, simulators and the future and, you know, the, the difference between the fake and the real, right. That’s what we always get into, especially with the racist. I was like, man, this game is so fake. And so I wonder what you’ve come across in building your curriculum to get around that, or things that you just.

Straight up say, you know what? This is a shortcoming. The physics engines can’t do it. And this is how we have to work around it. Or how do you teach to that in your plan?

David L. Middleton: I do tell the kids, this is how it works in reality. And in the same world, sometimes things work a little bit different. I preface it by saying it’s not exactly one to one.

I let them know that simulation is a great tool. I think it’s a fantastic tool, but nothing beats being in a seat, right? No, I don’t care. What kind of level D Box, [00:36:00] SimCraft, I don’t care what you got in your house, as great as it is, and I’ve driven most of this stuff, nothing beats the real world in real world physics.

You know, I know a lot of companies say we have real world physics, we have this, but at the end of the day, nothing beats seat time. So you have to understand what this is. This is a tool to prepare you for the future. What I’m doing is I’m trying to give exposure to what’s out there. I want you to go. I want you to get trained properly.

I want you to, whether it’s a degree, whether it’s an apprenticeship, whether whatever, but I want you to remember the math and science and the tools that I taught you and to put that towards your future. So that’s kind of how I get around it.

Crew Chief Eric: You mentioned that this is geared towards high schoolers and the world having been kind of turned upside down in the last, let’s call it 18 months, you know, with COVID and everything like that, were you guys initially doing this in person, you know, at a school and then when virtual, was it always CBT based or, you know, something like that.

Is it more like a work study? Is this [00:37:00] done in conjunction with their normal schedule, or is it part of their everyday schedule at that particular school that you’re partnering with?

David L. Middleton: Well, the path we were going down was after school program in person. We wanted to get it part of a curriculum for CTE, career technical engineering or career technical experience.

Sorry, I can’t remember exactly which one it is. So we had many talks. about that in California, but it was in person. And then, you know, we’re in the midst of raising money in COVID. So if you can imagine how tough that was, because one of the things on our agenda was a standalone center. Centers like Kids That Code and things like that, Code Ninjas, where They have these standalone centers.

And I thought, well, this is a great thing. Instead of your kid coming and doing rock climbing or something else, we were looking at a space in California and we had started the process of raising money and of getting partners. And I won’t go into who we had on board, but once COVID hit, you know, everybody just pulled back.

So then I said, okay, the goal is still to have it in person. But in the meantime, How can I make it where kids [00:38:00] who are homeschooled or kids who cannot go into the classroom can just log on and do their exercises. So there’s been a little bit of a shift because one of one of the big things is communication.

And I know that virtually you can communicate, you know, you can send me emails and we could do this. And this is great, but there’s nothing like being in person and working on a car together. Right?

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely.

David L. Middleton: Right. Brad can tell me, Hey, I’ve been working on this and show me the. See me join, show me whatever.

And I’m like, Oh yeah, you should do that. Brad or Brad can give me advice. But until he has me a wrench and if I’m not torquing it right, he’s like, Hey Dave, that’s not how you do it. You know, there’s a whole different aspect. Hopefully the in person will return.

Crew Chief Eric: There’s nothing like watching Brad strip a bolt and then just waiting for all the expletives to come out.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, I’m usually the one handing Eric the wrench.

Crew Chief Eric: But so it kind of, it makes me wonder, do you have a plan to set this up in such a way that it’s a transition from what they’ve been working on into maybe something like formula SAE, which is something available to [00:39:00] college students?

David L. Middleton: It’s funny that you mentioned that.

I think there is a lot of potential for my program. I’m very familiar with Formula SAE. It would be great to work with them if they wanted to work with me, but I also think this can be almost a standalone thing. One of the downsides, if any of you guys have ever done Formula SAE, you want to do it, you come into it, you’re six foot three.

You’re like, I want to drive. And they look at you say, Hey, buddy, grab a torch over there. Right? Or you’re a freshman and, and you want to do something and you want to do maybe the engine mapping. And they’re like, yeah, you can do that year three. So having it virtually shortcuts, all that. And guess what?

Everybody has to drive, right? That’s just part of my program. Everybody has to drive, whether it’s in exercises. Whether it’s for everybody has to drive and then the cause level where I don’t need more than three kids per simulator. You know, I can have it set up like Gran Turismo does their finals where you do a enduro and everybody has to drive, you know, so you’re not just mastering your special area.

You have to get in the car and we’ve got to make a car that’s going to [00:40:00] work balanced between the three of us. So yeah, I do think there’s stuff. It’s just right now I’ve been focusing so much on high school. Because by the time you get to college, sometimes your mind’s set up, you have the idea of, I know what I want to do, I got college, I’m going here, and then maybe you get your degree and you change your mind, but I want to reach minds early, and in fact I want to go younger, like I’d love to start in the junior high level, so they’re already thinking about it, and that’s why I’m focusing on high school, nothing against college students, But to get a liberal arts person, I’m going to major in history and they’ll be like, Hey, hi, have you considered being an engineer or a technician?

They’re like, well, not really, you know, and I don’t know, I don’t know if my program would change their mind, but I definitely think, and I would love to work if anybody’s out there from SAE, please contact me. I’d love to work with you and see how we can get this into colleges.

Crew Chief Eric: You’re right. There’s a certain stigma around the word engineering.

It’s almost scary in a way. Like you just say, well, I’m a chemist. You’re like, Oh, cool. You know, beakers and things and whatever, and it’s possible explosions. [00:41:00] Then you go, I’m a chemical engineer. And you’re like, Whoa, stand back, hold on. What’s going on here. Right. You put that word on anything and it suddenly just takes it to the next level.

And so I like the fact that by going early where minds are maybe a little bit more impressionable, but less jaded, you drop the stigma. And to your point, everybody’s now part of a team. And I think the younger students, especially high school students, they still have that team mentality. When you get to college, you’re like, man, I’m going to go do this.

Plus the word engineering behind it. Right. And then you become singularly focused. You almost become myopic. You’re specialized, but you no longer have that team mentality. It’s more survivalist in college where it’s like, well, my parents dumped me off here. I’m here for the next four years. I got to figure this out.

Like, to your point, like going to Germany. Got to survive, right? I got to get through this. Got to figure out how I’m going to excel. I applaud you for that. But I think there’s one more challenge here that spans, I think, the entire age range. And I don’t want to be any sort of way, but we all know that it’s true.

It’s first of all, it’s females in motorsport. And then it’s the [00:42:00] extension of that, which is females in engineering, right? Which have been positions that are tough to fill. And we’re starting to see that change every day, right? Like the full team of women that are running in Indianapolis, right? And you’ve got, you know, more and more women in science and all these kinds of things, but how do we engage them early?

Drop the barrier and make motorsport less of a male dominated sport and bring in more, more ladies into, into this.

David L. Middleton: It’s by putting a program like this right directly in front of them. Unfortunately, one of the casualties of COVID is I was working with a school in California and you can go on my Instagram and see, even though I don’t have much there, it was an all girls school.

And I brought the simulator out there to demo to the teachers and the teachers loved it. And then they brought in four girls just to get in, just to have fun. And when I tell you, you couldn’t get these four girls off of my simulator, you know, when I’m saying, Hey, I know what to do. She just jumped right in.

She hadn’t really driven before, but she keep it on the black stuff. And it’s encouraging, you know, women showing them that they can do it and don’t put any barriers on them. And [00:43:00] in getting programs like this in front of them, I’m fortunate. I have two daughters and another on the way. And then I have three girls in my household.

And my four year old, every time I’m playing Formula One, she comes in and she goes, can I drive? And sometimes like in the middle of a qualifying, and I’m like, baby, now it’s not the climb, but sure. Sit in my lap because I don’t want to discourage her. My eldest daughter, I’m starting her in carding already at six.

And I said, Hey, we’re, we’re practicing on the SIM and she gets on the SIM and she tries her best. But what happens is I have neighbors and I invite my neighbor’s kids over because they know what I do. I’m the crazy guy with the helmet and going off the tracks and coming. They, they know, they know exactly what I do.

And they have kids. And one of my neighbors has son and daughter. I invited them both over. They did a couple of times. Then the son only came over and I said, Hey, where where’s your daughter? Well, we don’t know. I said, did she like it? Yeah. She liked it. So it’s a bring her over. Well, you know, we’ll see if he likes it first.

And, and yeah, that’s a wrong move. And I keep saying, no, bring your daughter over. My daughters love seeing her here. She’s a little bit older than my kids. [00:44:00] You know, I said, my daughters also like to get on and see another girl, you know, it’s just, it’s recognition. That’s what, that’s what we gravitate to.

It’s encouraging them from an early age. It’s having programs, not just my program, but having other programs that’s showing them. carding that’s showing them, whether it’s wrenching, things like that, that to get them started at early age and tell them, look, you can do it. It may be tough. You may be the only one.

It may not exactly be, uh, what you thought it would be at the beginning, but stay with it. And then when they get older, they will go into careers. So I think it’s on us. And I mean, the general public to encourage them. I’ve had girls say, Hey, I can’t be an engineer because I’m bad at math. I’m like, well, what’d you get in math?

A’s and B’s. I’m like, what? What do you mean? You can’t be an engineer. Well, you know, that’s just not for me. And I don’t know where they get this from. I make sure that in my household and I make sure that when I go and talk that I tell people, this is absolutely for young girls too. You know, I want young girls in this program.

I want girls schools in this program. I want girls to do the [00:45:00] after school program with the guys to have mixed teams to fight, mix it up. You know, I want them to do that, to understand that look, this entry to motor sports, it’s, there’s no barrier, you know, you just have to go do it.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s funny you bring that up because, and I know people are going to cringe because I try not to bring it up too often, but I’m going to say it world rally.

Right. I grew up in the group B era. And for me, women in motorsport back then, it wasn’t uncommon because there were a lot of women rally drivers. I’m one of the most famous, one of the fastest ladies on the planet. They used to call her Michelle Mouton. Right. And her co driver Fabrizia Ponce, she went on to do rally later Dakar and a bunch of other stuff.

I mean, they’re, they’re famous. And even the same time in Trans Am, you had Lynn St. James running with Willie T. Ribs and Hurley Haywood and all them. So because I ran in those circles, it was like, you know, there were Definitely more men, but it wasn’t uncommon to see women, but I’m like, how did it not catch on, especially since the eighties when, you know, motorsport was so much more accessible than it is today.

Like I don’t, I just don’t get it. [00:46:00]

Crew Chief Brad: And to add on to that point, since you spent so much time in Germany and the U S. Do you feel it’s a domestic problem to the U. S. or is it a worldwide, like a global problem?

David L. Middleton: Yeah, that’s tricky because I knew somebody who raced in E. T. C. C. Particular female, man, she was good.

She was, I learned a lot from her. First of all, she was a great engineer. She could just flat out drive. From one year to the next, sponsors just backed out. She should have went from E. T. C. C. to W. T. C. C. There were people who were less talented. And I don’t know, because, you know, in Europe, they don’t frown against female drivers.

But at the same time, if you don’t have the right team behind you, if you don’t have the right PR person, sometimes it seems like there are some women who get promoted, who shouldn’t be there. And there are some women who should be there and they don’t get promoted. It’s very hard to say. I think domestically, sometimes the mindset is that this isn’t for girls.

Like, Oh, you’re a girl. Well, go play women’s soccer, go play tennis, go play softball. Like we’ve got, we’ve got women’s sports. Like that’s your thing. And I’m like, no, [00:47:00] like let’s, if they like motor sports, well, don’t force them. Right. But if they like it. Don’t shine away. Still trying to solve the problem myself, to be quite honest with you guys.

I talked to a lot of engineers, talked to a lot of drivers. I hear a lot of things, some of it, not all positive, but I’m trying to figure this out because I would like to know what’s the disconnect. Right? If you ask me about African Americans, well, I could tell you what’s the disconnect with at least African American males, right?

I can, I can explain that because that’s the side that I was on. But for females, I’m working with people and trying to listen to what’s the disconnect.

Crew Chief Eric: Is it because we make it overly complicated? When cars are complicated, but maybe the barrier is simplifying it. That’s what I mean. Even for people that they’re like, I’m not a car person.

I don’t get it. Right. Going back to my analogy about them being toasters and dishwashers, maybe that’s part of it is we’ve made it so complicated or seemingly complicated that it turns people away.

David L. Middleton: Maybe. I think also one of the things is you have to have a path and you have to have a path to get young [00:48:00] girls to become, whether it’s drivers or engineers or whatever, like something clear, something sustainable and something not done for PR, right?

No offense to anybody out there, but there’s a lot of PR stunts. And some women walk away like, what was that? Like that wasn’t even a fair shake. Well, what did I just get involved in? This is all PR. Like, I’ll give you an example. The, the w series scrape. I like it. Right. But personally, I want someone from the w series to immediately be able to step into formula three.

And I’ve heard people say, well, you can’t do that because if they get in the form of them to get crushed, well, so what you keep saying when the w series, you get into formula three or you get into formula two or something like that, and then. Make sure that there’s a clear path to success. Now, if they’re getting crushed, well, then you got to think about who you fill in the w series with.

Don’t just fill it with women to fill the grid, fill it with talent, right? Exactly. When it comes to men and women, there’s no shortage of talent on either sides, right? But the problem is. Sometimes somebody gets a spot more because PR and less [00:49:00] of talent. And there’s that pressure, unfortunately, for a woman who’s going to be a driver and there’s pressure that you’re going to have to perform, right?

Because you do have men who are going to frown down and say, Oh, well, she’s just here because, you know, she’s a female. So there is that pressure. You’re going to have to deal with that pressure to perform. But I do believe there’s a lot of women. Who can definitely not only go in the industry, but be drivers, but you got to get the right ones.

Don’t fill it because it’s a PR stunt. Don’t fill these spots because you’re just trying to fill the grid, like grow the talent. And if the talent isn’t there, then you got to go to the grassroots and say, what’s the problem? How do we get more women at the grassroots?

Crew Chief Eric: And you know, what excites me about this, David, the most is your kids and my kids, same age.

We’ve both got girls. And we’re probably going to be standing shoulder to shoulder at a paddock, probably at road Atlanta going, look at them go, right. When we’re too old to do it, we’ll be cheering them on. Right. And that’s the plan. I mean, at least in my, in my fantasy world, that’s how it’s going to work.

My wife, you know, whatever, but I would love to see that happen. Right. And, and, and I think it takes us, it takes our generation to make that happen as well. So I think you’re really doing the right thing and [00:50:00] moving the ball in the right direction. So, I mean, I applaud you for that.

David L. Middleton: Well, thank you. I’ve been, I’ve been very clear with my girls.

I said, look, this is daddy’s love. Right. You know, I go to the track, you know what I do on the weekends, you know, all the carding. I said, if you don’t want to be here, that’s fine. Dad’s not going to force you. But you know, I’m going to the track and I come home and I have like all the bands and everything.

And every time I come home, my girls are like, Oh, you’re at the track again, you know, like, why aren’t I going? And that’s what I’m trying to do to motivate them to go on their own. You know, I don’t want to force them, you know, and say, Hey, you know what, baby, there’s so much sponsoring dollars out there for a girl.

Go get it. No, it’s like, look, if I want you to love it, if you’re not going to love it, don’t even bother. Go do something else. This is dad’s passion. But if you are going to love it, I’m going to support you any way you want. My eldest daughter, she likes pink and blue and she already said, I want a helmet.

I want pink and blue shoes. I want this. I said, that’s fine. I said, do your first carding class before I buy anything. Do your carding class. Say you like it. Dad will start buying equipment, but until then, I don’t want to go buy all the stuff that you’re never going to use. So

Crew Chief Eric: that’s, that’s why I had them buy [00:51:00] me a pair of pink Pilates for Christmas and I wear them.

And I’m like, Hey, these, my daughter, if somebody who’s got a problem, I have a daughter bought these. That’s awesome. They’re driving shoes. They’re amazing. I love them, but, but getting back into it a little bit.

Crew Chief Brad: Yeah, to change gears a little bit, we’ll go back to the sim rigs. So your bio states, you consult with some of your clients on sim rigs.

So we have a lot of sim racers in the group. What would you recommend to be competitive for someone racing on like an iRacing or in our case, Forza or whatever? You know, just to, to be fun and just to have a lot of fun, not necessarily, a super competitive or whatever. Okay. So I’m giving you some free consulting here.

David L. Middleton: I think the rig is about, it’s about immersion. So I think you can be fast on anything. Of course, there’s some differences with brake pedals and things like that. There are certain rigs out 80 20. Those are the aluminum profile rigs. I know they’re a little pricey. There’s different ones of a rigidity. A solid rig and the [00:52:00] wheelbase.

That’s what you want, really, because it’s the wheelbase, the pedals that make a difference. I would suggest to anybody who, who’s in the market, has the money, go with the aluminum profile rigs. I think they’re some of the best. There’s several companies that do it. And that’s what I would recommend.

Crew Chief Eric: You know, we talked early on about the setups and the different things that the students are doing and setting up the car.

And, you know, a lot of times we look at setup in the video games. as a dark art, right? And so I actually did an article recently about that called The Dark Art of Forza Tuning. And I’ve kind of walked through approaching how to tune a car in the game from different angles. And, you know, certain changes have what seemed to be almost a placebo effect versus other ones actually have, you know, the inverse effect, the way you think about it in reality and stuff like that.

So to dovetail into the question that Brad just asked you, What are maybe some basic techniques for folks that are already maybe established virtual racers that want to get into tuning that you could pass on some of that knowledge?

David L. Middleton: Absolutely. Well, I think some of the techniques you can do is when you make changes, whether it’s your, your suspension [00:53:00] or your arrow.

What you want to pay attention to is the effects it has on the inner outer and middle of the tire. If you’re finding that there’s too big of a temperature differences between them, then you want to go a step back. There’s a lot of good resources out there. If you can find it still, there is a GTR tuning guide, which, which I read years ago, and I still have it saved.

To my desktop, because he kind of goes through steps and he says, look, if you do this step and that step, and this is the result you’re getting, and you’re seeing that your temperatures are rising, then go back every time you do a step, you do six or seven laps and see where your car is at. And if you like that, well, you go on to the next step.

If you tune that. And again, the temperatures are fine. You tune something else. Now, if you change that and the temperatures are going crazy and the can’t, and the bounce of cars feels weird, go back a step. So I think it starts out with small things. As you start. Maybe working on your brake duct openings, tire pressures.

Of course, that’s like the first thing. If anyone’s driving ACC, if you nail the tire [00:54:00] pressures, man, it helps. It helps a lot. And then just try stuff. It’s a, it’s a lot of practice and you have to, I would say, start tuning three things, try a couple of weeks, tuning three things, then start expanding four things, five things, six things.

And actually always go in with a plan. One of the things I do when I’m, I’m seriously practicing. I will go into a track that I know and I spend the first 15 minutes just doing laps, just so I get like a baseline of myself. And then I say, all right, I’m going to take the car that I know here or the car that I got to drive this week to this spot.

Start tuning it till I feel good. And then I’m going to go to the track where I’m competing at. So I think it’s about practice consistency. And I also, okay, I’m nerdy. I write it down. So I write down some of the changes. I, you got like spreadsheets and yeah, you know, just like a real engineer. I do that because I’m like, wow, that, that worked here, but it didn’t work here.

How can I get faster? So that that’s my suggestion.

Crew Chief Brad: So you don’t recommend my approach, which is to go in and change [00:55:00] everything and then ditch the car after two laps because it’s undrivable. I can’t recommend it. I’m sorry.

Crew Chief Eric: I mean, I mean, there’s the other approach to which is turn on all the nannies maximum downforce, you know, all arrow to max and send it at that point.

So that’s

Crew Chief Brad: the Andrew bank.

Crew Chief Eric: So let me, let’s ask about this is we talked about nannies, right? Nannies exist in the real world. Those are the driver aids, right? Whether they be simplistic ones like APS, traction control, stability management. There’s like a million of them now, all sorts of alphabet soup when it comes to that in the real world, ESP and TCS and all that

David L. Middleton: stuff.

Crew Chief Eric: But in the virtual world. How do you tend to set up your rig? Are you full manual manual with the clutch? Do you turn on and off stability control? What’s your best blend there? Or do you just turn everything off?

David L. Middleton: I’m more of the almost turn everything off. If I’m driving ACC, I got ABS set to one. I got traction control, usually set to two or three.

If I’m driving formula one, I got everything off except for [00:56:00] the hybrid system. I have it on automatic because it’s not realistic. That’s not the way it works in the real world. And it’s too much of a pain in the butt for me to keep switching it on and off and going through the mapping that that’s not the way it works when I’m driving, when I’m driving on, um, project cars, too, I have it set to realistic, but then I usually turn down the traction control as, as much as, as I can,

Crew Chief Eric: doesn’t interfere as much.

Yeah.

David L. Middleton: The minute it starts interfering, it’s like, I just shut off. Even if I know. That there is traction control say on, uh, but let’s say the GT four, the minute I feel it on my pedal. I just can’t drive like that. I’m sorry. So I shut it off.

Crew Chief Brad: That brings me to another question to kind of circle back to your students and your curriculum a little bit.

How do you feel or what do you think, or have you seen. their driving skill evolve over the course of your program and learning this engineering, I guess, skills, has it affected the way they drive in the SIM and has their driving gotten better both in the SIM? And if you happen to see them, [00:57:00] you know, driving their 1989 GTI on the street, I mean, how, how has their driving evolved?

Well,

David L. Middleton: unfortunately I haven’t seen that in a lot of students again, because of. Where we were with launching my, um, but I, but I will say that I’ve done a short courses, the driving from when they started in the SIM and when they came out weeks later has totally improved because I teach them driving techniques.

Some of the kids never knew what a marker board is. I have something on looking ahead and I show video of in game footage of it’s me driving, but I’m going down and I say, look. Here’s a marker board, or here’s a gap in the fence. Here’s this. And this is how you break. Because for them, they’re like, Oh, the curve’s coming time to get on the break.

They have no idea. It’s

Crew Chief Eric: analog. Yeah. Right. It’s

David L. Middleton: very analog. So I teach them actual racing and driving techniques. They start applying it because they they’ve got a lap counter and they’re like, wait a minute. I’m slower, you know, when I don’t pay attention. So now I’m paying attention. I’ll just buy kids who’ve come and [00:58:00] visited the house and done laps and laps and laps.

And I’m always sitting in the room while they’re driving. I’m trying not to talk too much to annoy them. But sometimes I’m like, Hey, you know, Jerry, why, why did you break there? Oh, I don’t know. I said, well, try breaking at the 200. Once he gets it down, like, hey, Jerry, try shifting it to 150. Where are you looking?

Well, I’m looking right at the market board. No. Once you start breaking, look towards the apex. I’m very hands on. I want, I want them to learn. And I have seen the kids who’ve been in my house improve. I’m hoping it’s going to transition that when I have high school students, I have several programs that their parents are going to be like, man, my, my son or daughter is a much better driver now.

And they understand speed. You know, I’m hoping that a lot of these kids will realize this is why you don’t speed on the street. Because it is so dangerous. And now you understand a little bit of vehicle dynamics. So please don’t speed on the

Crew Chief Brad: street. I’m envisioning some of your students sitting in the car with their parents.

Mom, you really shouldn’t be driving like that. You missed the apex back there at the curb when you drove past the stop sign. But I got one other question for you. I know Eric wants to jump in here, but, [00:59:00] um, have you ever had any like beat the teach? competitions or anything. Have you ever been beaten by one of your students?

David L. Middleton: Not yet. And yes, we do. In fact, one of the ways to get the word out is I have a beat the pro challenge where I was going in schools and bringing the simulator, did it in California. And luckily, you know, I had one kid who was like, Oh, I play Forza. And he was pretty good. And I was like, but I beat him

like, he was, he was like, Oh, he’s like, okay. He’s like, I don’t know this game, but I got fours it. And he got on the wheel and I was like, okay, well, I’m going to have to really drive and then that

Crew Chief Eric: goodness, the physics and PC too, is a little more complicated.

David L. Middleton: He didn’t, he didn’t let foot break. So I had the advantage.

I’m sure eventually it’s going to happen because kids adapt so quickly. You know, and, and that’s what I want. I want, I want kids to beat me and I want me to, I want to be upset about it, but, but I’m going to be like, Hey, tip my hat. Good job, young man, young woman. And that’s what I want. I want them to be excited about taking down a pro or taking down an adult.

Crew Chief Eric: To Brad’s point, I found [01:00:00] myself. Many times using the simulators as teaching tools, not only both for the real word HPDE, but also in our VRL where folks are like, I am just not getting this track and I’ll be like, cool, let’s get on, on a multiplayer session. We’ll do lead follow at Watkins Glen and I will walk you through the track.

I’ve recorded videos with that too, where it’s like, Hey, here’s a lap of VIR on Forza or whatever. This is how we do it in real life. This is how you should do it in the game. I mean, modify for your driving style. If you’d like to drift every corner, that’s up to you. Do you find yourself doing that as well?

Or is that part of the curriculum is kind of just teaching him the basics.

David L. Middleton: That’s not part of the, of the current curriculum at all, unfortunately, because I do have a lot of guided. On track stuff, but I do use it a lot with friends, especially friends who, I’ll give you an example. I was fortunate enough to drive Imola.

A bunch of my friends, they drive PC2. We drove Imola for the first time. And the first thing I did, I did a closed session, private room. I did lead follow. I remember, and I was [01:01:00] so visual being there. Like I remember the track, like it was the back of my hand, you know, in the first session, they followed me and then we did some practice and I’m still like four seconds faster.

So I had to do it again. But just because, you know, when I went to Emily, I just soaked it in, I was there for a couple of days and I just soaked it in and I love that track, but I do use lead follow. I think it is a powerful tool. I think it’s great if you are an up and coming. Carding kid who does SIM get somebody who could do lead follow with you.

You know, I think it’s so helpful.

Crew Chief Eric: So what you’re saying is you need some virtual coaches. I got you. I think I’m picking up what you’re putting down.

David L. Middleton: I do. I have grandiose plans and I would love to see everything and every thought that comes across my mind into the program. But of course, we’re still growing.

We’re still young. But I, and, and that’s why I come on a show like this is to connect with people, because I think there’s so many people connected to motorsports and automotive who’d say, Hey, look, I’ll give back to some young people if they’re going to, if it’s going to benefit them. So

Crew Chief Brad: you guys can always be a virtual coach.

Well, do you GTM even got it start? [01:02:00] We’re very deep in education and wanting to give back to the communities, teaching people, you know, the proper ways to drive and various things like that. Um, so, yeah, we’re whenever you get to that certain point, we’d love to help in any way. We can.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. So that actually leads right into probably 1 of the last questions, which is, you know, what’s the direction in the future for my, you know, is there a way to partner up?

Is there a way to volunteer our time as petrol heads to help you out or make the program better?

David L. Middleton: Well, yeah, if you’re interested in volunteering or learning more about what we do, there’s our website, my dash racing. com going forward. I am looking for partners. Um, what I, what I hope, and, and I’m, I am working on this is I still would like a standalone center.

There are certain partners I won’t name right now, but there’s certain. Partners, I think, would work well. I live a few minutes from Road Atlanta, so if you can imagine, there’s opportunity combined with Road Atlanta, and it is the Michelin Speedway, so you got Road Atlanta, you’ve got mechanics, you got [01:03:00] technicians, you’ve got IMSA there.

You’ve got Lanier, Drifting Track, there’s all these opportunities, and I go out to the Drifting Track from time to time just to watch. And sometimes it’s filled with thousands of young people. We gotta be able to do something there, because these kids need careers. Some of them aren’t really doing anything.

There’s that. I think there’s a lot of potential, but I would like a stand alone center. I would like a place where people can bring their kids. But I am also going fully virtual in case, you know, you don’t want to do in person, that’s fine. The other thing I’m doing is, as it is now, it is kind of a team based thing.

I am writing and finishing up the solo aspect of it. So if your son or daughter says, Hey, I just want to go through the curriculum myself. I want to do the races by myself and then maybe jump in for the practice races as a group where other kids are doing the program. And we say, for example, all right, Friday, June 20th.

Will be practice race one, you know, and then they come meet online. Then that aspect is there.

Crew Chief Eric: So would they be submitting that, let’s say via Twitch, that way you could go back and see [01:04:00] it or jump into their session and watch them live? Are you actually broadcasting the races for the curriculum for the different years that you’re doing on a platform like that, where we could tune in as an audience and check out and reach you guys on?

David L. Middleton: That would be great. Currently, we’re just using our own platform and and we have a, um, a standalone app with video capabilities, but broadcasting would be again, there’s nothing short of what I want to do what I want to accomplish. And that would be great because I want people to tune in and say, Hey, Look what these kids are doing.

I want my son or daughter to do that.

Crew Chief Brad: If you need commentators, uh, in a play by play people, we’re, we’re right there for you.

Crew Chief Eric: Okay.

Crew Chief Brad: Oh yeah. We can trash talk

Crew Chief Eric: with the best of it. It’s amazing. You’re not going to get David Hobbs quality announcing from us. That’s for sure. Hey,

David L. Middleton: you know, that’s what we need though.

We need, we need some humor. We need some trash talking.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s turn one chaos right there. Coming up. Just be prepared.

Crew Chief Brad: Every single race.

Crew Chief Eric: The race is not one and turn one folks. To your point about, you know, [01:05:00] seeing all those people in the paddock at Lanier, even at Road Atlanta, it’s right in line with why we started GTM, which is to continue to spread motorsports enthusiasm.

Because one of the things that people forget is the word. Sports in motor sport. It is a sport. There is physical activity and exertion and all that. It’s not the same as a stick and ball game. Stick and ball games aren’t for everybody either, right? I wasn’t one of those kids. I was attracted to cars, mechanical things, whatever.

And so motor sport is another avenue to be physically active, to be involved. It is strenuous. It’s definitely cardio, right? What you were saying about people being there is how do we engage them? How do we make them the next generation of motor sports enthusiasts or motor sports participants and not let our corner of car culture, let’s call it that from dying off, we understand the EV revolution.

We know everything that’s changing. We’re embracing that we’re seeing in a drag racing. We’re seeing in a road racing where EVs are being brought on board. So. It’s not, you know, the end is nigh. It’s a matter of adapting and overcoming [01:06:00] to the changes that we’re seeing. But we don’t just want it to fizzle off and go away because think about how many tracks there are just road racing tracks in the U S alone.

There’s over 80 of them, right? That’s not counting your circle tracks, your dirt tracks, your rally courses, and then you go worldwide. Motorsport is huge and it’s amazing how small. It can be sometimes. And I think you’re right on the right track. Exposure, exposure, exposure, get them early, get them interested and realize that it’s not just, we’ll get Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton or whatever, these superstars.

I could be part of this too. I could be the guy that, you know, we talked about, was it the gentleman driver? One of our early episodes where it’s like, I want to learn about the dude. Who was the tire manager? Like he had the coolest job and they interviewed him and we’re like, can we talk to that guy some more, you know, or whatever, and, and so there’s so many different pieces to this.

And I think it’s absolutely amazing that you’re trying to engage kids at an early age and continue that forward.

David L. Middleton: Well, thank you. And I do tell a lot of the [01:07:00] young men and young women, well, look, we, we want you to carry this forward because this is what we love. We understand that things are changing, but you’re going to have to develop it.

You know, we want you to go in and develop it. We want you to have a love of motorsports and keep that in mind as you’re transitioning, whether it’s to Evie or whatever else is coming down the pipeline, and I think some politicians forget about just how big the motorsports industry is, they forget because if you just ban all these gasoline cars.

You know, there’s so many millions, billions of dollars tied in to motorsports, into, into gentlemen, racing, into all this, there’s, there’s so much money. So we want to develop kids who say, Hey, we’re going to keep this going, but we’re going to do it in a way where of course we can protect the environment.

So, so for sure.

Crew Chief Eric: Absolutely. And what you do in motorsport often trickles down into your driveway. It takes a couple of years to get there. We’ve mentioned that before. It’s amazing how that trickles down. And it takes a lot of people like to your point earlier, it’s not done in a vacuum. It takes a team.[01:08:00]

And motorsport, you know, you look at basketball. Yeah. It’s a team of X amount of guys on the court and the managers and the coaches and all that, but motorsports even bigger, like there’s so much more involved. And so there’s an opportunity for everybody, male, female, young, old, to be part of that world.

And so that’s really important. And again, I applaud you guys for doing that. For more information on my, be sure to check out www dot. My dash racing and that’s M I E dash racing. com or follow them on Instagram and Facebook at M I E dot racing. And you can always reach out to David directly via LinkedIn by searching for David L Middleton.

And he’ll come up as CEO of my racing. So a couple different ways to get in contact with. My and with David, and we will be sure to stay on top of your guy’s progress and be able to help you out as much as we possibly can. So I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show. I think this has been excellent and an, and an amazing opportunity to talk about something new and exciting in the world of motorsport.

And I hope this [01:09:00] continues to grow and flourish.

David L. Middleton: But yeah, man, just again, it’s all about the passion and it just kind of led to these things. And led to me, you know, meeting Phil and. Connecting me to you guys. So again, thank you so much. Thank you for the time. Thank you for having me.

Crew Chief Eric: Pleasure.

David L. Middleton: Have a good night.

Crew Chief Eric: That’s right. Listeners. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our Patreon for a follow on pit stop mini sowed. So check that out on www. patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports and get access to all sorts of behind the scenes content from this episode and more.

Crew Chief Brad: If you like what you’ve heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to check us out on www.

gtmotorsports. org. You can also find us on Motorsports. Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call or text us at 202 [01:10:00] 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports. org. We’d love to hear from you.

Crew Chief Eric: Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization.

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