Evening with a Legend: Lyn St. James

• For those that don’t know Lyn’s epic journey in Motorsports, you can return to Break/Fix Episode #142 – released on September 6th, 2022 for that; but we’re going to jump forward to the 1989 Season. 
• Talk to us through your “Road to LeMans” … You were known for having year-by-year contracts; how did you strike the deal for a seat at Le Mans?
• You mentioned on our previous get together, getting advice from Jim Busby (the walk down the Pocono Paddock together) and being close with Doc Bundy at that time; did they help influence your journey to LeMans?
• What was it like going to LeMans for the first time? It has been several years since Margie Smith-Haas entered LeMans (‘84/85). Were you met with any opposition (as a woman)?
• 1989 is a special year, because it was “the last” of the good ole days, meaning… pre chicane, pre reconstruction of the pits, pitlane, etc. Why is that important? 
• Your teammates were: Gordon Spice, Ray Bellm, Wayne Taylor – what were they like to work/drive with?
• One of the biggest themes that has come up with other guests on this program is “mechanical sympathy.” Would you say that’s the most important part about endurance racing? Esp. at LeMans?
• 1991 – All female team, partnered with Desiree Wilson & Cathy Muller. Talk us through the return to LeMans? How did that come about? What had changed when you came back in 1991
• Looking back, 1991 was also the year of the revolutionary “Mazda 787B” any thoughts on that car? 
• Do you think despite how ‘91 ended, it opened doors or maybe laid groundwork for future teams like the Iron Dames and others to come to LeMans?
• What do you feel is the most challenging part of driving at the 24 hours of LeMans?

and much, much more!

Crew Chief Brad: [00:00:00] Evening with the Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to Legends of the Famous 24 Hours of Le Mans, giving us an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you. By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance to become part of the Legend of Le Mans, with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing.

Crew Chief Eric: Tonight, we have an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you, sharing in the legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over a hundred years of racing. And as your host, I’m delighted to introduce Lynn St. James, who’s had an illustrious career and is one of the most successful female race car drivers in history.

She would take home titles in races like the 12 Hours of Sebring, the 24 Hours of Rolex, and the 24 Hours of the Nürburgring. [00:01:00] And during that time, she would attempt the 24 Hours of Le Mans twice at a pivotal time in Le Mans history. Later, in 1992, the mold wasn’t just broken, it was shattered. And at the age of 45, proving that neither gender nor age in motorsports matters, she entered the Indianapolis 500 and earned the title of Rookie of the Year.

And she’s here tonight to share her Le Mans journey with us. With you. And with that, I’m crew chief Eric from the motoring podcast network, welcoming everyone to this evening with a legend. So Lynn, welcome to the show.

Lyn St. James: Well, thank you very much. And I’m coming to you from Indianapolis. I’m from another historical race in the history of motorsports, but it’s great to be here and to talk about Le Mans.

Crew Chief Eric: To catch up on all the things I described in the introduction, if you don’t know about Lynn’s epic journey in motorsports, you can actually return to BreakFix episode number 142, which was released at On September the 6th of 2022, so you can get caught up, but we’re going to jump forward to 1989. So Lynn talk us through your road to Lamar.

You were [00:02:00] known for having year by year contracts. So how did you strike a deal for a seat at Lamar?

Lyn St. James: Wasn’t easy. It was like a dream. If someday I thought if I could even just go to Lamar and then obviously race at Lamar, and it really wasn’t part of my Ford deal at all. So in other words, it was under contract in 1988 and a few years before that, obviously, but.

In 1988, I was under contract as a racer for Ford Motor Company. Ford wasn’t doing any primary sponsorships or funding or anything at Le Mans at that time. They really had no interest in even having the conversation. I was going to have to go outside of that and do this independently. And even though I was under contract to race for them.

So a friend of mine who has been very, very instrumental actually, and helpful in my career and also many other drivers careers is John Gorslein from the Gorslein company. He handles a lot of insurance issues for race car drivers and professional athletes and high wealth individuals. He’d heard me going on and on and on about, I got to go to Le Mans.

I want to go to Le Mans. From what I know, he reached out to Gordon Spice. Gordon Spice obviously is legendary at Le Mans, legendary with [00:03:00] the Spice chassis that he has been building and competing. And so I guess he was receptive, but then the dialogue was okay. Well, where are we going to find the funding?

Well, in 1988, I actually had sponsorship from a company called DeRolt, which On my Trans Am cars and then my IMSA GT cars, interestingly enough, they were interested in not just international exposure, but international distribution. They had a fuel attitude that was very unique at the time, and they wanted to have international distribution.

And so they became very interested in wanting to sponsor and put together a package to race at Le Mans. Really, I mean, it was timing. It was. Having somebody help me to be able to reach out to the right people. And actually we put together, not only the funding to race over there, but also put together a whole activation reception and all kinds of things for DRALT for their fuels and so that they could meet the right people and, and all of that.

It was a matter of months, months and months of conversations and figuring it out. And finally, word was, yes, and we had a deal and we got [00:04:00] busy preparing all of the details that had to be worked out.

Crew Chief Eric: On our previous get together. If you jump back into that other episode, you mentioned two previous evening with a legend guests, Jim Busby and Doc Bundy, you talked about walking down the paddock together at Pocono and discussing the cars and learning from Jim and working with Doc over time.

So with their experience at Lamont, did that help draw you in? Did they help influence your journey? Did they give you any tips?

Lyn St. James: No, no, no, no. I never had a conversation with either of them about that, but knowing them and, and, you know, knowing Hulbert and Derrick Bell. And I mean, I knew these drivers that raced at Le Mans.

I mean, I followed racing as much as I did it, you know what I mean? And so I was a very aware of Le Mans and I studied and read everything. I mean, it was just interesting. Some drivers really that went there, Didn’t like it all that much. I mean, it wasn’t always on there. I mean, but it was also, if you are a professional race car driver, whether you’re Formula One, whether you’re IndyCar, whether you’re sports cars, Le Mans is on your radar.

I mean, Le Mans is one of those [00:05:00] races that at some point in time, you definitely want to do. And in fact, if you’re an engineer, if you’re a crew chief, if you’re a team owner, I mean, it is one of those. Iconic races that I think everybody wants to do, and everybody wants to go to, even as a fan. I didn’t need any encouragement.

I just needed the access and that I needed to find the financial support. And I mean, the timing turned out to be ideal, obviously coming off of having success at Daytona in 87. And I mean, my endurance racing career was starting to gain. You know, respectability at Sebring, at Daytona, at Watkins Glen. And so when you’re known to be a good endurance racer and a good teammate in an endurance race, then that helps when you are then talking to people on the other side of the pond about this opportunity.

So I didn’t really get any tips about the driving that I recall. No, the best advice I got was literally from Gordon and Ray. When I got over there, I mean, they were. incredibly helpful. You know, I had some friends, John Mecham, who had been a successful team owner at Indy, and we had [00:06:00] become very dear friends in the 80s.

He actually came over and there was like this positive energy in a circle around me that, that just really helped. I am, I’m, Such a good listener and I wean information from people, even when they don’t know that they’re actually giving the advice. So, you know, it’s just the way I operate. I mean, I’m always hungry for something that I can put into my bag of knowledge.

If I don’t have it personally, then how can I get it from somebody else?

Crew Chief Eric: Your story parallels a lot of other American drivers. Going to Lamar during this period, they’re sort of like drinking from the fire hose. First time there, I learned the track on my first outlap during practice, or I’m in a new car on a new track.

So what was it like going to Lamar? Did you have this sort of idea or illusion in your head or fantasy of what it was going to be like? Did that glass ceiling break when you got there? What was that initial experience like?

Lyn St. James: Let’s face it. We saw the movie, right? And we didn’t have simulators at all of the visuals that are available now.

First of all, it helped that I had prototype experience that I braced with the Ford Argo prototype in 84, and that I had had [00:07:00] the prototype, the GTP cars. So I had some downforce, high speed experience, but this is a long course. The other good news was that I went over there early because we had to do a lot of activation for DeWalt’s fuel, you know, so we had these parties and things and meetings that had been set up.

And so I did do a little bit of driving and. Talking to the drivers that I knew when I got over there, Brian Redmond. I mean, Brian Redmond is like an encyclopedia. I recall, I think I actually got some laps in a rental car because I remember the Porsche curves was really hard for me. And before I ever even got in the race car and to just get the timing, I’m a rhythm driver.

I really look for a rhythm and a racetrack and Le Mans is a little tough because you’ve got two racetracks. You’ve got the backside where you’ve got the long straightaway, but obviously before the chicanes and you have a more of the high speed. Corners until you get to the cake at the end of the straightaway.

And then you’ve got a real series of corners. So there’s almost like two different racetracks to me and from a rhythm standpoint. And I had a hard time with Indianapolis corner and Porsche curves. So I just broke it down bit [00:08:00] by bit. And when I was struggling, I would talk to any of the drivers that I knew that.

And I knew, unfortunately, a number of, as I said, a number of drivers that were my contemporaries, I’m going to call them, meaning they were American and they knew who the hell I was. And I would just pick their brains.

Crew Chief Eric: You talked about getting there the first time, getting oriented with the track. But what was it like culturally at Le Mans being not the first, but one of very few, especially American women to grace Le Mans, what was that like?

Were you met with any sort of opposition?

Lyn St. James: Well, you know, it’s funny because my first time out of the country was actually when I raced the 24 hours of Nurburgring, which was about a decade earlier, I did get a lot of strange. I don’t know, resistance, maybe, I mean, they called me an Amazon woman when they were interviewing me and I did get a real sense of cultural resistance and discrimination about nobody would really believe that I was doing what I was doing.

But that was 10 years before that. That was in Germany. In France, I didn’t really get that sense of an attitude about it. In the 80s, we’re talking a whole decade later, the 80s where things were starting to open up a little bit, even in [00:09:00] France. The only comparison I could make, the first time I went to the Indianapolis 500 in 1992 as a driver, the best way I’d describe that is it was like Christmas every day because every day I’d go to that track and I’m like, I am an Indianapolis Motor Speedway as a race car driver because I’d come there as a fan, but now I’m there as a race car driver.

At Le Mans, when I was there, and I hadn’t done Indy yet, this was like the highlight. This was like the top of the mountain. I am at the 24 hours of Le Mans as a race car driver. I’m not here as a tourist or as a fan or as a spectator. My feet were on the ground, but I had this sort of elevated, my sensories were just absolutely at the very top.

Which means that if there was probably a lot of stuff going on, that I was probably pretty oblivious to it. I was just so proud to be there and then so determined to learn that course and drive well. I just let a lot of stuff probably roll off me. I tend to operate that way. When I’m doing something that I really want to do and I really am committed to doing it really well, I stay so focused.

I only allow [00:10:00] things in that are going to contribute to that success. The other stuff, sometimes I don’t even hear it. It’s like, if you don’t have anything positive to say, or you don’t have anything you want to say to help me, just get out of my face, get away from me.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, we’ll put a pin in it and come back to that because this theme continues throughout your career and then your subsequent career after that, let’s go back to 1989 because it’s a special year.

And you actually alluded to this. Because it was the last of quote unquote, the good old days, meaning free chicane, pre reconstruction of the pits, pre new pit lane, all those kinds of things. Why is that important to Lamont’s history? 1989?

Lyn St. James: I didn’t know that it was all going to change. I mean, I was just there experiencing it, like watching the movie.

And I mean, it was everything authentically the way you’d always seen it. I think the thing that was the most appalling to me was when we would come down pit lane. Is how many people were in pit lane? I was used to racing over here in the U S where, I mean, you were restricted. There were a certain number of people allowed over the wall.

And you only, if you were getting ready for your car to come in the pits, that was it. I mean, the rest of the time the pits are clear and there, it just seemed like I [00:11:00] kept seeing from kneecaps down because, you know, from the prototype, it was like, I just kept seeing all these legs, you know, and these people, and I’m like, what are these people doing in the pits?

And of course the pits were narrow. And, you know, as you come out onto the track, it was pretty cowboyish, pretty old school, you know, but it’s like, okay, this is what it is, kiddo. So figure it out and make it work. It wasn’t until, you know, I left, I mean, it wasn’t until after the race and I come back to the United States and then I read about all the changes that were made.

And then of course, when I went back in 91, I didn’t even feel like I was at the same place. Huge building. I don’t even know what to call it. The structure where the pits are underneath, you know, with all of the hospitality, I guess, of meetings. I mean, it became a very stoic, harsh, cold, beautiful building.

And then of course, very professional with the pit lane. And then the way the victory stand comes out over the track. I mean, the whole thing was extraordinary. You know, the old way in 89, I mean, behind the pits where everybody walks to get to the other pits or do you have to go through to get out? It [00:12:00] was so narrow.

And I mean, it was kind of damp and kind of smelly. And I mean, it was like being in the locker room, but it was fantastic. I mean, none of that is a complaint, but I didn’t understand it until after the fact, I was really experiencing something I would know that I would never be able to experience again, you know, because it was changed.

Crew Chief Eric: What’s also important about that time is LeMans was still carrying the tradition of being one of the fastest tracks. On the planet outside of made the Nürburgring in terms of full length straightaways. And you are no stranger to doing 200 plus mile an hour at this point, but speeds down the Molson in excess of 230 miles an hour.

So what was that like in the Ford powered spice GTP? I mean, you’re in this, it’s a brand new car to you. So walk us through that.

Lyn St. James: You know, it was a brand new car. You’re right. But. The car worked, wasn’t wandering, you know, I mean, it was actually set up really well. I’m sort of numb to the numbers of speed.

I feel like it’s all relevant. And it’s just, you’re always trying to go as fast as you can. And yet I remember talking to Hurley Haywood [00:13:00] in particular saying to me, yeah, but what if a tiger goes? When you’re going 230 miles, I said, Hurley, why are you thinking about that? I mean, you know, it’s like, don’t think about that.

Speed is a number and it is a desire to go as fast as the car is going to go. And what’s beautiful about Le Mans, first of all, that Mulsanne straight’s not really straight. You’ve still got It’s movement there and then crown of the road is really weird. You know, it’s like when I ran at Talladega, which was really just before that, that I remember asking Bill Elliot, like, Hey, could you show me the line?

And he goes, I’m going to show you where not to go. And so I kind of felt that way at Lamal, particularly on the Mulsine straight, because you can get caught into thinking it’s just, let’s go down the middle of the road. And so you really have to pay attention. And again, weed information from Ray Bellum and.

Wayne Taylor and my co drivers and my teammates and really look at where not to be on the racetrack so that you’re not darting around because you’ve also got traffic, but where you do not want to place your car. And of course, having downforce, I had a responsive car. I wasn’t like [00:14:00] floating and trying to figure out how to manage it.

My recollection, it was a good ride. And this

Crew Chief Eric: was during the ground effects era too. Was this your first ground effects car?

Lyn St. James: No, the GTP car that I’d had, the Ford Mustang Grove, it had some ground effects and not as much, but sort of the Argo that I had. So I’d had some experience with that.

Crew Chief Eric: So you mentioned your teammates, Gordon Spice, Ray Bellum and Wayne Taylor, who’s still involved in endurance racing today.

What were they like to work with and drive with back in 1989?

Lyn St. James: Everyone’s got their own personality, a lot of different characters hanging out together. Ray and Gordon were so laid back cause they’d done them all so many times. I mean, and so to them, this was just another year of doing them all. I mean, I was like, so hungry to be, contribute and be on the track and all.

I mean, they kept, you know, you go out, you go out. I got a lot, actually a lot of seat time. And of course, didn’t know until it was over that Gordon had decided to retire. I mean, after that race, unfortunately the engine went and we broke, I think 16 hours in, but he had already decided that he was going to retire.

He was very helpful, but at the same time, just very laid back. It’s hard to [00:15:00] explain, but I’ve not been around racers that were that sort of casual about everything. Wayne, on the other hand, I’m not sure if this was the first time Wayne had done the law. I haven’t talked to him about that, so I don’t recall, because he seemed pretty wired.

I remember the one challenge that he had and I got a kick out of this because he’s a little guy. One of the tests that we all had to do was to be able to take the bonnet off for having access. Now that’s at the back of the car because that’s a big, big piece. And so we all had to be able to unlatch it and do it that we needed to have access to get to where the engine was.

The other guys were pretty big, so they were able to do it no problem. And Wayne was struggling and I’m thinking, holy crap, if he’s struggling, what am I going to do? He just about got it and got it okay. I was last, I was so lucky because I just had a little puff of wind at the end that just caught it and helped me, you know, I was a nervous wreck about that.

And so was Wayne. That was one of those that it was kind of nice to see somebody else struggling about something that I was having a hard time with. And the other two guys, they were from other countries, European from other countries. And, you know, they were kind of typically nice, [00:16:00] but arrogant. Yeah. You know, not positive or negative.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, the reason I bring up your teammates is because one of the themes that comes up with every guest, and this is true of endurance racing in general, is the concept of mechanical sympathy and with different drivers behind the wheel of the car for different lengths of stints and things like that. Not all of you drive the same, although you try to practice and get a rhythm down and try to get lap times down.

So did mechanical sympathy. Maybe play into the demise of the spice car.

Lyn St. James: I don’t think so because I’m not aware if it was, because those are conversations that too, when one driver’s driving, the other two drivers who aren’t driving could have that conversation as they follow somebody, they’ve noticed that, you know, something is now been abused.

Or is not functioning very well and could have been abused. So that conversation usually happens from the two drivers that are out of the cockpit, while the other driver’s in the cockpit. And I don’t recall that conversation having it with either with Ray or Gordon. And the other car, even though we were all teammates, when it came to the race, I mean, it was kind of like two independent [00:17:00] programs because the crews, they help each other, but they were really assigned and kept to the car that they were running.

Crew Chief Eric: So as we close out 89, one of the other big themes about driving at Lamar is how variable it can be. And there’s the sentiment that Lamar chooses its winner, right? If you believe in that sort of superstition, but. The weather is a big to do. Like you said, the crown of the road, the cars, all the different tires, the different drivers.

So when you put all that together, when you walked away from Lamont, the end of 89, what did you feel was the most challenging part of driving the 24?

Lyn St. James: Really? The most challenging was. accepting that we didn’t, because the car was running so well the majority of the time, and it didn’t just blow up. I wasn’t in the car.

I think Ray was in the car, because the car is still running. So I was trying to catch up. Okay. I probably just rested. And cause I went over to Gordon and I’m like, okay, you know, and then he goes, we’re done. And I’m like, what do you mean we’re done? He said, you know, the engine’s gone down and I don’t even know what actually had broke, but I mean, it was just, we’re done.

And I think the most challenging was Accepting that and, and walking away feeling fantastic [00:18:00] because I’d raced Le Mans, but at the same time, the air is out of the balloon of, Oh my God, we didn’t make it to the end when we were, we made it so far. And you know, the only other time, and I had a very similar at Sebring when I was at a 935, it’s the first time I’d raced a 935 turbo and just the turbo went, but the engine was still running and I’m out there.

And I remember Jim Bell was my crew chief and he’s on the. Radio and he goes, Lynn, you know, bring it in. We’re done. I’m like, what do you mean? We’re done. The car is still running. Fix it. You’ve got to be able to find a way to fix it. Accepting defeat, particularly when the car is still mechanically running, even though it may not be mechanically sound enough to continue in an endurance race.

Accepting defeat is, is one of the hardest things. It’s really hard. It’s hard to walk away after everything going so well, after all the fulfillment of a dream and all the excitement. You don’t want to have a bad taste in your mouth at the end. At the same time, that’s just the hardest, is dealing with that and trying to go back to, oh yeah, but we did this, and oh yeah, but we did that, you know, so it was that defeat.

Crew Chief Eric: That segues us right into 1991. And to [00:19:00] quote you for the last time we got together, you It’s the one you don’t like to talk about and for very good reason. So let’s set the stage. For those that don’t know, you return with an all Pink Spice GTP car. At this point, Ford powered, but this time it’s an all female team and you partnered with Desiree Wilson and Kathy Mueller.

Talk about this return to Lama. As we mentioned before, Lama had changed. Suddenly you get there, brand new buildings, brand new pit. They’ve got Chicanes on the mall Sun. It’s like a reboot. So walk us through 1991 and the return.

Lyn St. James: Everything was. Before we even got there. So, I mean, it was intriguing. Yes. Pink car, all female, Spice, Cosworth.

So that was the good part. I got to go to Japan. I’d never been to Japan. So I got to go to Tokyo. That’s where they made the announcement. So there was this woman, Tabika was her first name. She had put the deal together. And so there were a lot of things. Quoted, said, written down. There were a lot of statements made about this effort and I knew Desiree.

So I was like, [00:20:00] this’ll be perfect. Really fantastic. So it was going to be Desiree, myself and Tomika. So then we go to this racetrack in Japan, not Suzuki. It was one that I’d never heard of. It’s actually a beautiful racetrack too. I mean, it was, it was stunning. And so the car was there. We were going to just test, all get acclimated to the car and to the team.

And everything was wrong. Car barely ran, you know, we were having incredible troubles. It became very obvious that everything that was said and presented was not necessarily happening. You know, it wasn’t necessarily real, but you know, you want to be optimistic and you want this to work. So, you know, our radar was up like, I don’t know about this.

Hope that works out. So this was months in advance of going to Le Mans when we went to Japan. So, we show up at Le Mans, now we see, I see at least, all of the, oh my God, this is all different, you know, and I see all this part of it, but it was a different crew than that were with the car in Japan. The car was a disaster.

I mean, the car was not prepared for Le Mans. They had said it had raced in some other race. [00:21:00] Whatever it was, it was still had the setup for that race as opposed to being set up for Le Mans. And I just remember since I had, the most recent person had been to Le Mans, I took the car out first. I mean, I wasn’t at race speed at all.

At the end of the Mulsanne Straight, I went for the brakes and the brake pedal fell off. I mean, the pedal just fell off, it was rattling down on the, you know, on the floor. And I was livid on the radio, and of course, the entire crew were all Japanese, nobody spoke English. And so they’re like rattling, and finally Desiree gets on the radio, Boo!

You have a problem with the brake? I said, expletive, you know, The brake pedal fell off, you know, I said, I will try to get it back to the pits. So I got back. And I mean, that is what the start of our first out there. There were some crew guys and team members from another Spice team who had worked with me when I was with the Spice two years ago.

And they came over and tried to help. And they told us everything is wrong with that car. The suspension is wrong. The shock is wrong. Everything. And they let us know, we would help you if we could, but [00:22:00] we can’t because that car is so off and so wrong. And then the ACO or the Lamal people would not approve Tameka’s license.

So now she’s being told she can’t get in the car. So now we only have two drivers. And so that’s when it was really mostly Desiree put our heads together. Trying to figure out who could we get to replace Tameka. And that’s what we called Kathy Mueller. And so Kathy Mueller, cause she lives in Europe. So she was able to come out and join the team so that we could still fulfill.

There were all kinds of conversations that they weren’t even going to let us on the track and that they weren’t even going to let us run. Desiree’s husband was there, Alan. And he was, you know, everybody was just, it was total chaos. Total chaos. And Desiree, God bless her, would not give up. I mean, she would constantly, at one point I saw her, literally with her hand, with this little Japanese guy and she had him, she had him off the ground and his feet were going like this because she was so mad.

She was like, you know, trying to get him to do whatever it was that needed on the car. So, I mean, Desiree [00:23:00] just really, to me, was very, very committed to trying to figure out how to make the car run. And they did let us start at the back.

Crew Chief Eric: Neil says, In 91, Desiree crashed the race car in practice, which forced the team to switch to a spare car, but then she crashed in the race and caused the retirement.

How were things between the two of you? Knowing all this went down,

Lyn St. James: Desiree is one of the most talented race car drivers that I know. I’ve known her a long time, raced against her, raced with her. My criticism of her is that she doesn’t understand the limits of the car. She drives the car like it’s perfect and she’s going to drive the wheels off of it and doesn’t understand sometimes the car’s just not ready to do all that.

She was so dedicated to make this thing work. I do not at all. Criticize or angry. I mean, I think it’s amazing that she did as much driving and as much, she tried to get as much out of the car as she did, because I mean, we were definitely behind the eight ball the whole weekend. I just say, God bless her for working so hard.

It was just everything that could have gone wrong, went wrong. And that’s when you just have a really bad pit in your stomach of saying, this is not [00:24:00] the way you want to race at all. And you certainly don’t want to race an endurance race. This way, when the car is volatile and not mechanically sound, I could go on and on about it.

I don’t even remember all the details. As I said, it’s one that I have practically tried to erase on paper. Yes, I was there. It is not one of the better races in my entire racing career.

Crew Chief Eric: No, but there’s a point to us bringing it up and it’s part of one of your quotes, which is there are more failures. Then successes in motor sports.

And so I think 1991 was a learning experience for you. So what did you walk away from in 91? What did you take away from that? Despite all the tragedy and the chaos and the calamity of this car.

Lyn St. James: Thank you for reminding me of my quotes. Cause it is failures. We’re going to have a lot of failures. You learn more from failures, but it’s what you do next.

It’s what you learn, but it’s also what you do next. For me, I was at the same time working on my indie program, but I think it was not being so vulnerable. I mean, what I learned was. You know, no matter how much you want to do something, you know, how much, how badly you want to do something is that you [00:25:00] just use your brain and when they, I mean, literally after Japan, I should have bowed out.

I just said, I’m sorry, this is, this is not right. So I’m not going to do it. Racers are the most optimistic people in the entire world. And many times your optimism will overcome bad stuff. But I think it was more of a Lynn, you know, when you really know and see something then use your brain and use your instincts and don’t be that vulnerable.

Don’t allow yourself to be that vulnerable because. Once we got there, I mean, other than the experience of seeing Le Bon in its current, revised, upgraded state, there was nothing else good that came out of it. There was no like, oh, well, you know, at least we accomplished this, or at least we accomplished that now.

I mean, so I think it’s just learn to trust your instincts and don’t be vulnerable. Allow somebody to pull the wool over your eyes.

Crew Chief Eric: Looking back at 1991 from a different trajectory, it was also a revolutionary year at Le Mans. Not just because of the course design, but there is a car that graced the stage that has really never been reproduced ever again.

And this is the infamous Mazda 787B [00:26:00] quad rotor GTP car. What was that like? What were your thoughts seeing this basically one of a kind LMP car out on track?

Lyn St. James: That was cool. I mean, it was killing our ears. It was exciting. You know, I’d forgotten about that, to be honest. I mean, I had actually raced an RX 7 at the 24 Hours of Daytona many years before, like a decade, I think, before.

And so to see that sort of, One off have success. This is why we do always want to be optimistic because even the things that you think are going to work, you know, sometimes can work. I mean, it was ear piercing. It really was. It was a beautiful demonstration of a commitment. And that’s where you come to that thought of that you brought up earlier.

Is that somehow the universe. Decides who’s going to win a race. That’s how it happened. You know, I think that their hard work or preparation, they earned that. But I think there was a little bit of the universe interception saying, yeah.

Crew Chief Eric: And it was definitely a pivotal moment for Mazda and put Mazda motorsports on the map.

And some mutual friends of ours have often expressed that that is the turning point. And it starts there at Le Mans. I mean, obviously that car ran prior to that, but that’s 787B. That [00:27:00] has translated into a legacy for Mazda that is absolutely incredible.

Lyn St. James: It is great to watch, you know, what Mazda has done.

And obviously a dear friend of mine is John Doonan. He really was in charge of a lot of that after that. I don’t think he was involved in that project. I don’t know, but I don’t, I’ve never talked to John about that. I should. It was definitely a tipping point for them to really embrace that Mazda could go racing and sell more cars and sell more products and make a statement and be successful in motorsports.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, as we transition into our last segment here, I was holding off on an audience question on purpose because it leads us into a deeper conversation about what you’re doing today. May pose the question that reads, what were the advantages and or disadvantages of being a female racer amongst the majority of male colleagues?

Lyn St. James: 99. 9 percent of it is really no advantage. You know, the only advantage If you want to call it an advantage is you do get more eyeballs. You know, you do get more people paying attention to you, observing you, but I don’t know if I’d call that even an advantage unless you can use it to your [00:28:00] advantage. If you can use that to your advantage in a positive way, meaning help a sponsor get more exposure or actually encourage.

others to show that somebody other than a male can do this. You know, you can justify some positivity out of that. I can’t see where I can say I’ve experienced an advantage. I can’t. And maybe I’m missing something that I would if I, but I can’t, I just can’t say, oh yeah, there’s this disadvantage, there’s this advantage.

But you have to look for how to make it work. And how to make it work for everybody, not just for you. You know, when you are the minority or the odd one out, whatever you want to call it, first of all, get used to it. If it makes you uncomfortable, then, you know, you better figure that out. Who wants to spend a lot of time being uncomfortable if you’re really pursuing your passion?

Become comfortable with it. Get over it. If it does bug you somehow, just figure out how to manage it and get over it, but then look for the positivity that you can make with it.

Crew Chief Eric: And the reason I chose this as our transition point is because thinking about 1991, despite everything we’ve already [00:29:00] highlighted and revolutionary things that were going on in motorsport because of Mazda.

There’s a younger generation of petrol heads of enthusiasts and of upcoming racers, looking at what you’re doing at Lamont, despite success or failure and going, there’s some team of all female drivers at Lamont. So it wasn’t an all female team. We’re not talking about, you know, the Beth Paretta indie team and things like that.

This was on a smaller scale and you guys were struggling and trying to make the car work. Again, there’s this audience watching from different angles, taking everything. And like you said, learning without really trying to learn. So I’m wondering, did 91 sort of open the door for what didn’t really happen again for 30 years, where teams like the iron dames stepped into the paddock.

And now you have all female teams running at Lamont. So do you feel like inadvertently you created this paradigm where people went, I can see myself there because I see Lynn there.

Lyn St. James: If we had been successful, yeah, but fortunately Desiree was already a respected race car driver, you know, so nobody put, [00:30:00] Oh my God, the girls, they can’t drive a freaking car.

You know what I mean? So we didn’t have to deal with that because I was a respected race car driver. Kathy Mueller would, you know, she was a respected race car driver. So the three of us were there carrying something that we just made the best effort. So the racers. The real people in the sport, I think, looked at it as, God, those gals tried.

If you talk to some of the crew that were around, I thought we just never gave up. You know, and I think there was some respect that gets earned when you, when you approach it that way. If I ever tried to figure out what the outside is thinking, you know, meaning the fans and the media and the people that I, I haven’t had this opportunity to have a conversation with, I would go crazy trying to figure out what people.

Are thinking. And so, I don’t know. I’m sure what you said, there’s some people that looked at it. I’ve talked to Deborah Mayer, but I, I don’t even think she knew that we did that. I would be very surprised that she knew that that even existed. I don’t wanna get ahead of us to say that that opened up the eyes for others.

And because it would be too easy to criticize. It’d be too easy to, I don’t know, to say, well, they couldn’t do it. They didn’t do it. They didn’t do, they didn’t get it done. And [00:31:00] unless you, people are motivated by what didn’t happen, that they’re gonna prove that it can, and, and I don’t know. It’s outta my league of understanding.

Crew Chief Eric: But it did open the doors for WMNA, Women in Motorsports North America, which is an organization that you co founded a couple of years back. And your charter is to help to prepare more women in all sorts of positions, not just driving, to become part of, let’s just say in this context, the Le Mans story.

So tell us a little bit about WMNA and what you’re working on.

Lyn St. James: Yeah, but wait a minute to prepare them to never ever get yourself in a position to do that, be smarter and better. So you’d never get yourself into that position. If anything, maybe that did have a lasting don’t, you know, don’t people anyway, so go ahead.

Sorry.

Crew Chief Eric: Tell our audience who may not be familiar with. WMNA, what it’s all about, what you’re working on, progress you’ve made in the last couple of years.

Lyn St. James: WMNA is Women in Motorsports North America, and we are a not for profit that I founded with Beth Perretta and about 40 other people in the industry in motorsports.

And it is about celebrating [00:32:00] and elevating and encouraging more women to pursue a career in motorsports and then to also be successful in motorsports. Because the more successful, then the more motor sports will grow. And, you know, we’re still figuring out all the ways that we can do that. And we can’t do it all.

Part of our goal and mission is to encourage others to actually reach out and do things that they can do. So you have the PNC, GDASI, they have a scholarship program every year that PNC sponsors for engineering. I was just supporting them. Michelle Della Pena, she had 27 high school girls after applying and they had 50 apply in high schools all over the, you know, central Indiana.

Come out to the track for three days and learn about all the different careers. So we’re doing a many different things, but our main pillar is to be educational. And we do that through our women with drive summit. This year will be the fourth year that we’re doing the summit and it’s taking place in Indianapolis in December 9, So spending a couple of days networking.

Yes, but also doing a deeper [00:33:00] dive into the challenges. And the successes of what women have experienced in the sport so that everybody could do it better. Racing is always about doing it better, right? Making it go better, making it faster, make it last lasted. So we’re really just networking. We’re expanding the knowledge base and we are capturing the knowledge base.

of people that are out there that are wanting to be in the sport who are in the sport and want to help others. It’s a really exciting time. I mean, I’ve made some efforts in the past decades. I can only say that the timing is right. Everybody in the industry, racetracks, sanctioning bodies, race teams, sponsors, everybody is reaching out and saying, what can we do?

Or this is what we’d like to do. Help us do it. The time is now. And it’s been really exciting just to see it get traction. That’s what WIM is about.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, Neil writes, Which up and coming female drivers are you most excited about right now?

Lyn St. James: Well, there’s a long list, actually. If you’re paying any attention, know that Kaylee Bryson just won a USACS Silver Crown race last weekend.

Made history. Taylor Ferns is also running in that [00:34:00] series, and I’ve been working with her. Mia Lovell, there’s Hannah Greenmeier, there’s Hannah Grissom, who I’ve been trying to help over the years. I mean, there’s just, there’s so many that are doing really well. I’m so encouraged that we’re going to have some race winners out there.

I mean, and that’s what, I mean, Jamie Chadwick obviously stood on the podium in the next race recently. Chloe Chambers has really been improving and doing really well. So, I mean, there’s just, Quite a few.

Crew Chief Eric: So if one of the younger lady drivers came up to you and say, Lynn, I heard you’ve raced at Lamar, what do you say to them?

Lyn St. James: Get as much road racing and endurance racing experience. I’ll give you an example. This series that I am not familiar with. I haven’t gone to one, but I’ve, they’re like eight hours long and they have like two or three races over the course of a race weekend. It’s kind of more grassroots, but at the same time, it’s.

pretty well prepared cars. You know, do a lot of those so that you get a lot of time in the car and you’re dealing with different co drivers and you’re dealing with different racing conditions. Endurance racing is how you prepare to go to Le Mans to be a good endurance driver. You know, start networking and [00:35:00] read, read a lot.

I mean, I used to read a lot of publications and, you know, try to stay current about what’s happening over there because it changes a lot. The politics change, the race teams that are changing. Then the other I would say is to try to align as early as you can in your career with an OEM, because the OEMs are now really demonstrating and testing their products in endurance racing.

So whether they are racing here in the U S or whether they’re racing with the world endurance championship or at Le Mans, pay attention to what teams are there, what OEMs are there and start letting them know you exist. You know, the awareness that you need to have, and the knowledge you need to have, and then the awareness that they need to have that you exist, and this is your desire.

It may take two, three, or four years, but you know, you got to start somewhere, so start now.

Crew Chief Eric: It’s no secret you’ve had a long standing relationship with Ford Motorsports. As we wrap up, I want to get your thoughts on the last time Ford won at Le Mans, which was in 2016 with the Ford GT, and now they’ve just introduced the GT3 Mustang.

So where do you think the future of Ford is at Le Mans? Do you think [00:36:00] there’s a win in the future? Do you have hopes for Ford?

Lyn St. James: Absolutely. I mean, I think they did finally go back and win on, you know, that anniversary year. And that was important. And they always. All of them, and Ford for sure, they want to sell product, and they want to demonstrate their product in racing, prove it in racing, so that people then want to buy it.

People are smart, and at some point, if your race car is so exotic, and so over the top in technology, it doesn’t relate to the actual street car, they get excited about it, but they’re not necessarily going to want to buy the product, I don’t think, because they’re going to go to the races, and they’re going to buy tickets, and they’re going to cheer for you.

And they may buy the t shirts and the hat and all the other stuff. You’d become, you know, Ford race fans and they might buy a Ford product because of that, but more than likely, they’ll be a lot more likely to buy a Ford product. If they see a car very similar to the kind of car that they could buy out there racing and successfully racing.

So, I mean, I saw they raced at Laguna Seca and, you know, they’re not out of the box. They’re not winning yet, but they’re definitely showing that they can be [00:37:00] competitive. Ford is kind of stepping down, I think you would call it, or back a little bit and racing more of the relatable product, relatable to the types of the cars they’re selling.

And so Mazda has proven that beautifully. Porsche is proving that all the time. I mean, their race cars are still real race cars, but they can translate much closer to what you would buy to take out on the street.

Crew Chief Eric: In all this time that’s passed, you were in the heyday of the GTP class. It has come full circle again, as of last year.

Is that exciting? Oh yeah.

Lyn St. James: Oh yeah. The ultimate race cars you could say would be Formula One and IndyCar, because you know, you’re talking about, but that’s open wheel. And so to be able to see prototypes with the OEMs involved, most of them, it’s the engine that are powering it, but it’s also all of the engineering and technology that’s going on.

being developed of it. And let’s face it, those cars are fast. Those cars, they’re like magic. And I mean, now to me, they’re very complicated with the hybrid. And I mean, I remember when we were testing turbos back in the eighties, the turbochargers that we were [00:38:00] running in the Ford’s at that time, they were testing it to put those in the street cars.

Cause I remember when they didn’t work, I’m like, So what’s wrong? And they’re like, well, we don’t know yet. I’m like, you better figure it out. Cause you’re going to fix it for your street cars. So they’re kind of testing a lot of that hybrid technology and under heat, under vibration, all of the stresses that you put on a race car are much greater than you’re going to put on a production car.

And they’re sexy. I mean, they’re exciting. And, you know, I think the eighties of the prototypes was one of the highlights of motor sports and particularly in sports car racing. And we’re having another era of that now.

Crew Chief Eric: Well, one other thing before we close this up, we have a special message from one of our ACO ambassadors, Margie Smith Husk.

Margie Smith-Haas: It’s all Margie out there. Hi, Lynn. I am so glad I get the opportunity to do this. I am so proud of you. I want you to know that I watched the video that Eric is talking about. I thought, well, I’ll watch for maybe five minutes and I got to go to bed. I couldn’t stop until it was done. I’m so, so pleased at what you’ve accomplished through your career.

and what you’re doing for [00:39:00] other women in racing. It’s just mesmerizing. I’d really, really like to encourage everyone to listen to your story. And I know you’ve got much more to go and I just want you to know, I’m so proud of you.

Lyn St. James: Well, thank you. Thank you. I mean, you were part of that whole process, Carol, with what you did too.

Thank

Margie Smith-Haas: you. We were comrades. Yes. And I remember whenever you wrote that first book and so forth, it was just to see where you come and how you fought to get where you are, but you deserved everything that you got. I know that you’ll be doing even more and congratulations on WMNA, what you’re doing for the women.

And you’re just a legend, ma’am. Thank you.

Lyn St. James: We got a whole crew doing the WMNA thing now, which I love, you know, I don’t feel the weight on my shoulders. It’s like great. Now we’re out. We’ve got ambassadors and we’ve got just talent coming out everywhere, volunteers and just some wonderful things going on.

So that’s all. That’s a great, which you’re helping too. So that’s great. Thank you. And

Margie Smith-Haas: best of

Lyn St. James: luck in

Margie Smith-Haas: everything you do in your future.

Lyn St. James: Thank you, darling. You

Margie Smith-Haas: too.

Crew Chief Eric: With 31 speed records earned over a 20 year span and many wins and titles in her logbook, Lynn [00:40:00] St. James reset more than just metrics in a record book.

She rebooted the way we look at and think about motorsports. And because of her perseverance and accomplishments, she has inspired generations of talented women to also get behind the wheel of a race car. And her continued efforts to expand and equalize motorsports Sports are far from over and we can’t thank her enough for all she’s done and continues to do for the racing world at large.

To learn more about Lynn, you can visit her website, www. lynnstjames. com, as well as Wynna’s website, www. womeninmotorsportsna. com. And on behalf of everyone here and those listening at home, thank you for sharing your story with us. We hope you enjoyed this presentation and look forward to even more Evening with the Legends throughout the season.

So with that, Lynn, I can’t thank you enough for coming on Evening with the Legends, sitting down with me, and I look forward to seeing you very soon this season.

Lyn St. James: Oh, thank you. Thanks so much, Eric, for bringing me back and let me talk about Le Mans. It’s a really, it was special, special. So thank you.

Margie Smith-Haas: Thank you.[00:41:00]

Crew Chief Eric: This episode has been brought to you by the Automobile Club of the West. From the awe inspiring speed demons that have graced the track to the courageous drivers who have pushed the limits of endurance, the 24 Hours Le Mans is an automotive spectacle like no other. For over a century, the 24 Hours Le Mans has urged manufacturers to innovate for the benefit of future motorists.

And it’s a celebration of the relentless pursuit of speed and excellence in the world of motorsports. To learn more about or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than www. lemans. org, click on English in the upper right corner, and then click on the ACO members tab for club offers. Once you’ve become a member you can follow all the action on the Facebook group ACOUSAMEMBERSCLUB and become part of the legend with future Evening with the Legend meetups.[00:42:00]

This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part of our Motoring Podcast Network. For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational content from organizations like The Exotic Car Marketplace, The Motoring Historian, Brake Fix, and many others. If you’d like to support Grand Touring Motorsports and the Motoring Podcast Network, sign up for one of our many sponsorship tiers at www.

patreon. com forward slash GT Motorsports. Please note that the content, opinions, and materials presented and expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has been published with their consent. If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators of this episode via email or social media as mentioned in the

[00:43:00] episode.

Skip ahead if you must… Here’s the highlights from this episode you might be most interested in and their corresponding time stamps.

• 00:00 Introduction to the Legend of Le Mans
• 00:43 Meet Lynn St. James: A Racing Pioneer
• 01:56 Lynn’s Journey to Le Mans
• 02:31 Securing Sponsorship and Support
• 04:19 First Impressions and Challenges at Le Mans
• 08:16 Cultural and Personal Experiences
• 10:10 The Changing Landscape of Le Mans
• 14:21 Racing Dynamics and Team Interactions
• 17:04 The 1989 Le Mans Experience
• 18:56 The Return in 1991: New Challenges
• 21:57 Driver Dilemma and Team Chaos
• 22:41 Desiree’s Determination and Crashes
• 24:26 Lessons from 1991
• 25:42 Mazda’s Revolutionary 787B
• 27:25 Challenges and Opportunities for Female Racers
• 31:07 Women in Motorsports North America (WMNA)
• 35:42 Future of Ford at Le Mans
• 38:31 Closing Remarks and Acknowledgements